What If? plausible phyles of a realistic Diamond Age

Bassoe

Well-known member
Scenario: Welcome to Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age. Post-scarcity nanotechnological manufacturing has made the nation-state obsolete as people no longer need to interact with people they don't want to to maintain a technological standard of living and society splinters into self-selected groups called phyles.

With that in mind, what phyles would you realistically expect to exist? Stephenson had fans of Victorian era morality and steampunk aesthetics, various hacker and performance artist collectives and Caesar's Legion but themed around Dynastic China rather than Rome, but what are your opinions?
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
So...nations go away because we somehow have everything we might want...

What the hell keeps armed people from fighting over land? Because that's still a limited resource, and a prime reason for states.

I've never read this idea before so I'm trying to wrap my head around it.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
So...nations go away because we somehow have everything we might want...

What the hell keeps armed people from fighting over land? Because that's still a limited resource, and a prime reason for states.

I've never read this idea before so I'm trying to wrap my head around it.
A combination of MAD and easy alternatives. For lebensraum, artificial islands and supergiant buckminster sphere airships both showed up in the book and for MAD deterrence, remember the bumblebee-sized drone airships whose patrol routes make up the "immune system" of various phyles' territories? How about the nanite transmitters small enough to stick on skin pores and applicable by body spray or the skullgun explosive projectiles? What happens if someone combined all three of those technologies and made a swarm of insect-sized killer drones programmed to automatically shoot anyone who didn't have the proper identification spray?
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Yeah, that was my thought in the alternatehistory forum version of this thread. Though I'm curious, if the apocalypse can be averted and/or survived by distribution of humanity such that a single disaster can't get everyone*, then what are plausible phyles?

* Cookie-cutter explosives have a blast yield from a particle the size of a bloodcell sufficient to break the sound barrier. Use a solution of them as rocket fuel. Drummer tubing holds an atmosphere against deep oceanic pressure and when deflated, fits into spaghetti-sized tubes. Launch an entire centrifugal wheel station in a capsule the size of a comsat. Et cetera.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
At this point in tech it's whatever the F you want.

You've solved the energy problem if you're making whatever you want.

Is gravity a tool now?

What about space...can you make a phone booth-sized structure trans-dimensionally contain a football field?

As for organizations/structures...those reliant on a state structure are toast.

Things like biker gangs will be happening vs those that want a fixed/stable community.

I can see religious communes being a thing.

Really anything where a common identity set can be established.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Trekkies
The default unit of the Trekkie phyle is the spacecraft. Several hundred is an average crew, organized as meritocratic-ish dictatorships based around military discipline controlling access to the fabricators through passwords and biometrics. Essentially, an 'ensign' has only limited quantity of mass they can access to fabricate and limitations like 'can't make weaponry without the approval of the tactical officer, can't make drugs without the approval of the chief medical officer, can't change the ship's course without the approval of the navigator, etc.' The duty of Ranking Officers is to distribute resources and if the Enlisted Officers are dissatisfied with their choices and/or request it, 'put them ashore' at a convenient source of raw materials such as an asteroid or failed earlier space colony with no survivors with an unrestricted fabricator to create their own ship, aboard which, they will be the Ranking Officers. Ranking Officers must balance keeping their crews satisfied so that the crews don't leave and maintaining enough of a meritocracy that all the vital equipment for keeping humans alive in space is maintained and competently operated. Failures tend to either lead to everyone dying or a captain seizing totalitarian power or 'being promoted to the admiralty' as the trekkie slang goes. The phyle as a whole attempts to ideologically excommunicate said admirals as traitors and a black mark against themselves, but has little success in doing so since MAD deterrence applies to close-range ship combat and nothing else can reach a ship, so there's nothing stopping the admiral from simply ignoring their demands and continuing while they spam the Nets with 'but that guy isn't a real trekkie'.


the UFP Perseverance, photographed 2231 AD/205 CEP

Grounded/Based Trekkies
A subphyle descended from the result of a group of trekkies 'put ashore' at Iapetus who rather than doing the conventional trekkie thing of building a magnetically accelerated Verne Gun to launch a sufficient mass of iapetusian raw materials into orbit to build a new ship, created an immobile artificial habitat governed equivalently to a ship, save that 'being put ashore' means being supplied with life-support-equipped ATVs/rovers and an unrestricted fabricator and driven around a hundred kilometers away from the nearest habitat to build their own. Assuming the current rate of habitat creation vs failure, it is estimated that in approximately two centuries, the current status quo of maintaining hundred-kilometer demilitarized zones between habitats will cease to be practical on account of Iapetus being too small, at which point either the iapetusians will somehow form a lasting peaceful alliance, have a war between habitats and Mutually Destroy themselves, or return to a more conventional trekkie ship-based nomadic lifestyle.

Interstellar Trekkies
Ideologically, the trekkies are all for spreading beyond the solar system, but practicality has limited them since without a source of raw materials a matter of years away at most to 'put people ashore' at and defuse tensions, they'd have no means of settling onboard dissidence aboard an interstellar generation ship. Several ships have tried anyway, but none have arrived at their destinations yet and with the loss of communications with sol-based civilization, nobody but their own crews can tell if they've been able to avoid Admiralty dictatorship and/or mutiny and everyone dying. One stratagy proposed on popular trekkie messageboards would be to take a small moon, large enough that it'd take generations for a single starting Iapetus-style 'starbase' habitat to replicate to fill it, during which, hopefully, it could reach its destination and build an absolutely immense orion drive engine capable of moving the whole thing, but nobody's actually tried it yet.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
See that's where I disconnect. There's always someone too stupid, angry, or insane that would create such things. I can't imagine that society NOT burning down.

We are a very competitive, individualistic species that thrives on challenges and stress.

Remove both of those and we get "sick" one need look no further than the Pax Americana for examples of that.

Some fucking lunatics would get bored and just start terrible nano tech fueled wars to safely vent that need for pressure.

This would be a disaster for our species.

* Cookie-cutter explosives.

I read this as Cookie Monster because I'm tired as hell and now I'm picturing a Von Nuemon holocaust going OOMMMMNOMONOMOMNOM! TAASSTTE SO GOOODD.

I need sleep.
 

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