Neoreacshunary Kat Sez - NRx Memes And Stuff

[Oratusalbumus]

1. Caligula and Nero were a) overstated and b) had no capacity for anywhere near the scale of interference which modern state did. Fact is, most people in the Empire never felt whatever they cooked up.

2. So receiving help from Social Security is, somehow, not begging? And you completely changed topic here - I never denied that working is not preferable, or even suggested anything to that effect. If you are going to reply, reply to what I actually wrote, or don't reply at all.

Social security is not begging. Begging is asking for something that belongs wholely to another person, social security is something you pay into your entire working life. I started paying into it when i was 15 and got my first job, so did everyone else. Matter of fact it's the ONLY thing everyone pays into. People who don't earn enough by the end of the year don't have to pay income tax, but no one gets out of social security, even if you work for yourself. The only people who work and don't pay into it are ones getting paid under the table. You can look at it as government pension plan, except instead of paying into a private pension through a job you pay it to the government. People may not want to pay into a pension, but they have to pay into SS.

 

[Aldarion]

) Concept of nanny state is a modern construct.

This isn't true. Rome had subsidized grain sold to the public in the city of Rome since the 3rd century BCE.
That eventually became just a straight free grain dole during the last century of the Republic, then was expanded during the imperial age.
The Emperor vespasian instituted the Alimenta system which started with free schooling for the children of the poorest citizens. Later during the Antonines the Alimenta system was expanded further to include money directly to these citizens, which were literally became a welfare system. Trajan later created orphanages (an innovation in the Ancient world that would take centuries after the fall of the Western empire to exist in some form again).
Similar things existed in other cities at the time, albeit not with a civil bureaucracy and institutions that the Romans had. The reason this isn't common knowledge is because while Classical studies were a mandatory subject in higher education for centuries, it wasn't known until the the Renaissance. If you went to college it was required to get a degree, but the classical liberal education (nothing to do with liberal vs conservative, just liberal arts) is essentially a niche area of study now.

Yeah. Funny thing is, there is kinda little difference between Roman Empire and modern states. All we have are marginal improvements, but no fundamental changes.

Social security is not begging. Begging is asking for something that belongs wholely to another person, social security is something you pay into your entire working life. I started paying into it when i was 15 and got my first job, so did everyone else. Matter of fact it's the ONLY thing everyone pays into. People who don't earn enough by the end of the year don't have to pay income tax, but no one gets out of social security, even if you work for yourself. The only people who work and don't pay into it are ones getting paid under the table. You can look at it as government pension plan, except instead of paying into a private pension through a job you pay it to the government. People may not want to pay into a pension, but they have to pay into SS.

I know/knew a few people who have never worked yet managed to get quite large social security checks. And many Arab and other extra-European immigrants who come to Germany (where btw one of said people lives) also get social security aid without having worked there for a single day. So while what you describe is how the system should work, it is not how it actually works, at least in Europe.

 

[Oratusalbumus]

Yeah. Funny thing is, there is kinda little difference between Roman Empire and modern states. All we have are marginal improvements, but no fundamental changes.



I know/knew a few people who have never worked yet managed to get quite large social security checks. And many Arab and other extra-European immigrants who come to Germany (where btw one of said people lives) also get social security aid without having worked there for a single day. So while what you describe is how the system should work, it is not how it actually works, at least in Europe.

There certainly isn't as much difference between the 2 in this instance. All those systems are in place specifically in the city of Rome. Their institutions are they basis for all of ours. Regardless, the point is that idea of people getting government aid is not new at all.

At for social security, you cannot just come from another country and connect social security. If you haven't worked during your life, you cannot collect social security. To be able to claim even the lowest benefit level you have to have worked at least 10 years, and benefit payouts increase with your working history.

 

[Cherico]

) Concept of nanny state is a modern construct.

This isn't true. Rome had subsidized grain sold to the public in the city of Rome since the 3rd century BCE.
That eventually became just a straight free grain dole during the last century of the Republic, then was expanded during the imperial age.
The Emperor vespasian instituted the Alimenta system which started with free schooling for the children of the poorest citizens. Later during the Antonines the Alimenta system was expanded further to include money directly to these citizens, which were literally became a welfare system. Trajan later created orphanages (an innovation in the Ancient world that would take centuries after the fall of the Western empire to exist in some form again).
Similar things existed in other cities at the time, albeit not with a civil bureaucracy and institutions that the Romans had. The reason this isn't common knowledge is because while Classical studies were a mandatory subject in higher education for centuries, it wasn't known until the the Renaissance. If you went to college it was required to get a degree, but the classical liberal education (nothing to do with liberal vs conservative, just liberal arts) is essentially a niche area of study now.

your assuming modernity is a modern construct.

Modernity is a phase of cultural experiementation that a civilization goes through, the period with the free grain dole during the last century of the republic was a modern period for the mediterarian civilization that predates the western civilization that arose in its ashes.

 

[Oratusalbumus]

your assuming modernity is a modern construct.

Modernity is a phase of cultural experiementation that a civilization goes through, the period with the free grain dole during the last century of the republic was a modern period for the mediterarian civilization that predates the western civilization that arose in its ashes.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Aldarion]

At for social security, you cannot just come from another country and connect social security. If you haven't worked during your life, you cannot collect social security. To be able to claim even the lowest benefit level you have to have worked at least 10 years, and benefit payouts increase with your working history.

As I have said... in some European countries (e.g. Germany) that stuff is actually possible.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Yeah. Funny thing is, there is kinda little difference between Roman Empire and modern states. All we have are marginal improvements, but no fundamental changes.



I know/knew a few people who have never worked yet managed to get quite large social security checks. And many Arab and other extra-European immigrants who come to Germany (where btw one of said people lives) also get social security aid without having worked there for a single day. So while what you describe is how the system should work, it is not how it actually works, at least in Europe.

This is because Rome *was* the modern period of Classical civilization. Modernity is a recurring phenomenon.

 

[Navarro]

This is because Rome *was* the modern period of Classical civilization. Modernity is a recurring phenomenon.

"Society will inevitably collapse soon" says man who wishes he'd been born in the 11th century and wants society to inevitably collapse soon so he can LARP as a central African warlord or barbarian king for a few months before getting shanked or shot. You constantly play this game of asserting that "this thing that I clearly want badly to be true absolutely has to be". It's embarrassing.

 

[Navarro]

Nah, pessimism is just the open eyed recognition of reality.

The current modernity is not special, this too shall pass.

Hell, the idea that this enlightenment garbage will be someday be as forgotten as Aten worship is our only hope.

Hmm, hmm. Atenism was the private project of an eccentric, possibly mad, pharaoh in what Spengler would term Egyptian civilisation's universal state. This is precisely why it proved so evanescent. Nobody outside him and his court had any investment in it. There may have been some influence from the Hebraic Revelation, but that would be baseless speculation.

If you actually understood Spengler in detail (rather than "rah rah barbs kewl, civilisation suxx") you'd note that he designated the Enlightenment as "Faustian Civilisation"'s equivalent of "Apollonian Civilisation"'s Hellenistic era (which makes sense, since his whole theory was based on a direct parallel between Napoleon and Alexander the Great).

Which suggests, putting on my Spenglerian hat and assuming he was right on his theory of cultural development ... Enlightenment political thought will be similar to Hellenistic philosophy in that it will not only defeat all its competitors within its cultural sphere, but serve as the basis for any post-Faustian or neo-Faustian cultures' modes of governance in the same way that all European philosophy is considered as footnotes to Plato.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

@DocSolarisReich Dude I'm begening to think your more tired of hearing noise than anything else. To that I suggest leaving political discussions for a bit or even getting off the internet. there is more to life than politics and while we are busy whining and LARPing over the things we can't control we are complelty missing the things we can (putting our own community leaders in check for starters.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

@DocSolarisReich Dude I'm begening to think your more tired of hearing noise than anything else. To that I suggest leaving political discussions for a bit or even getting off the internet. there is more to life than politics and while we are busy whining and LARPing over the things we can't control we are complelty missing the things we can (putting our own community leaders in check for starters.

Brah, I’m married with children, I’m a veteran of the army of the United States, I’ve humped a ruck and taken Congress’s shilling overseas in Europe and Iraq. I am productively employed supporting my dependents, I am a member in good standing in a local parish church and I have a regular D&D group.

What exactly am I missing out on shitposting with ya’ll?

 

[Zachowon]

Brah, I’m married with children, I’m a veteran of the army of the United States, I’ve humped a ruck and taken Congress’s shilling overseas in Europe and Iraq. I am productively employed supporting my dependents, I am a member in good standing in a local parish church and I have a regular D&D group.

What exactly am I missing out on shitposting with ya’ll?

You were infantry right?

I think some people just get irritated by how some people argue constantly.

 

[Navarro]

@DocSolarisReich Dude I'm begening to think your more tired of hearing noise than anything else.

It's not that, he just wishes he were an old-style feudal baron in a world where such people can no longer exist.

we are complelty missing the things we can (putting our own community leaders in check for starters.

He can't do that, because he won't allow himself to cast a vote even for dog-catcher and he thinks the civil community leaders should have total arbitrary power over him (unless he's one himself, in which case he gets to wield the total arbitrary power). The ideology he's chosen for himself says that any participation by him in politics is evil unless he takes up arms to try and overthrow the government (which is somehow more acceptable to him than going to the ballot box) all on his own, which he knows he'd lose at. So he's locked himself out literally of doing anything to move politics to where he wants.

LARPing on the internet is all he'll ever be able to do. No-one sane wants to install a feudal system of administration and reduce the USA to the level of central Africa or warlord-era China. So all he can do is spill his fantasies about how the US Army has a WW1-era doctrine and Russia is still a major military concern and Bavaria should have dominated Germany ...

 

[DocSolarisReich]

You were infantry right?

I think some people just get irritated by how some people argue constantly.

45B10, small arms and towed weapons repairer, ordinance corps. Not that it mattered much in 2002-3.

 

[Zachowon]

45B10, small arms and towed weapons repairer, ordinance corps. Not that it mattered much in 2002-3.

Ahh so infantry in all but name.

Yeah I can see where you get a lot of what you have

 

[Navarro]

Ahh so infantry in all but name.

Not infantry, REMF. Those types tend to carry a lot of resentment.

 

[Zachowon]

Not infantry, REMF. Those types tend to carry a lot of resentment.

He likely had to go out and work with Infantry and string pullers. Closest one gets to combat ams without being it.

I am the complete opposite side of things compared to him.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

What exactly am I missing out on shitposting with ya’ll?

coming up with any real attempt to organize and coming up with a solid grassroots organization mainly. the problem with punk movments as a whole is they are really good at giving the finger to the system without actually doing anything to keep it in check. It's in a way it's own form of virtue signaling.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

coming up with any real attempt to organize and coming up with a solid grassroots organization mainly. the problem with punk movments as a whole is they are really good at giving the finger to the system without actually doing anything to keep it in check. It's in a way it's own form of virtue signaling.

Yeah, I tried the IRL organizing thing, but my wife said no. Turns out dissident politics isn’t any good for your career.

Sedition and rebellion are a young man’s game I’m afraid, for those without hostages to fortune.

 

[Scottty]

He can't do that, because he won't allow himself to cast a vote even for dog-catcher and he thinks the civil community leaders should have total arbitrary power over him (unless he's one himself, in which case he gets to wield the total arbitrary power). The ideology he's chosen for himself says that any participation by him in politics is evil unless he takes up arms to try and overthrow the government (which is somehow more acceptable to him than going to the ballot box) all on his own, which he knows he'd lose at. So he's locked himself out literally of doing anything to move politics to where he wants.

How do people get into a mindset like that?