Mod posting in the Wuhan Flu thread and Trustworthiness of the Information Posted by Lord Sunhawk

[Bacle]

I'm going to be blunt and direct here, so as not to waste anyone's time.

LordSunhawk's updates in the Wuhan Flu thread have become a misinformation problem.

The simple fact is the "official numbers" are not accurate, everyone knows this, and trying to pretend they are accurate does nothing to help anyone. It is brutally obvious now that the numbers out of China cannot be trusted, yet Lord Sunhawk is still reporting them as though they are trustworthy.

Also, trusting the WHO when they are known to be CCP mouth pieces is disingenuous at best. The CDC numbers are a bit more trustworthy, but not by much because they are working with the CCPs lies as well.

The mod-text nature of those posts, and the fact that Terthna has now been warned against questioning them in public for the reasons I stated, does not do the rep of this forum any favors or make the staff look good at all.

If LordSunhawk wants to continue posting "official" numbers, they should do so without using mod-text and do a bit more due diligence with their numbers. Terthna was able to poke a gapping hole in LordSunhawk's credibility with just a few seconds of searching, and there were already questions about how trustworthy those numbers were.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Bluntly, my credibility is in no way on the line and I am posting it that way because it was officially requested that I do so. I am not going to take this abuse from people over that.

I am using solely CDC and WHO numbers at the direction of admin. You will note that at no time have I challenged posters who have questioned the numbers or their accuracy, you are completely free to do so. You are not free to attack ME. I speak in those posts in mod voice *because I am not personally involved in this because I don't give a shit*.

 

[Terthna]

@Terthna , this data stream is being generated at the direction of those in charge to be specifically generated from WHO and CDC data. Since I have no actual interest in following this, I'm not wasting anymore time than I've been specifically asked to do by admin. If you want to do your own data sources, feel free to do so.

Seriously Zoe, what the hell?

Now I have no issue with him or Zoe presenting whatever data or opinions based on said data they choose to, but using LordSunhawk as a proxy and having him do so in his capacity as a mod is just distasteful. What's worse, said data is factually false, yet I get handed a warning for pointing that out. I'm sorry, but this is just not a good look for you, or the staff as a whole; it makes them look like your puppets, and that they will spread false information on your behalf.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I have to manage a balance between freedom of expression and the need to keep this board a viable business, @Bacle . That balance is reflected in the TOS. I feel that posting the official statistics is much smarter than other ways of going about this -- it keeps free expression for everyone. But at the end of the day, I don't want this board to be a chan (that's why the rules are written the way they are) or a place where people engage in conspiracy theories and hurt themselves (say, by buying Alex Jones' colloidal silver to treat themselves with, or something like that). LordSunhawk, who, by the way, isn't Tippy but is an old friend of mine since at least 1999, who posted on SB under a very similar name for most of that time, was doing this as a favour to try and keep the thread from being unbalanced. I believe that was an appropriate way to avoid both hysteria and negatively impacting anyone's free expression. The reality is that Lord Sunhawk does think that I am a pessimistic doomer about the Coronavirus... And I think that a lot of the people in the thread are pessimistic doomers about the Coronavirus. So we're talking about a few orders of magnitude in interpretations here, so that's always just going to cause some issues, and they need to be tolerated and respected. Nobody is going to get punished for what they say in that thread, but if staff wants to engage in coordinated messaging without punishing anyone, I think that's a fair compromise for all of us.

 

[Deleted member 1]

And just to clarify: When I mean "punished for what they say" I mean posting information contrary to Lord Sunhawk's official staff posts. Whether or not the warning falls into that category and should be overturned isn't something I have looked at yet, or will look at until the Admins have looked at it first--because I'm the second line of appeals and I stay away from that.

Also, at Sunhawk's request, the posting of the CDC/WHO official figures will cease at this time.

 

[Terthna]

Bluntly, my credibility is in no way on the line and I am posting it that way because it was officially requested that I do so. I am not going to take this abuse from people over that.

I am using solely CDC and WHO numbers at the direction of admin. You will note that at no time have I challenged posters who have questioned the numbers or their accuracy, you are completely free to do so. You are not free to attack ME. I speak in those posts in mod voice *because I am not personally involved in this because I don't give a shit*.

For what it's worth, I apologize for calling you a liar. I had assumed you were making those posts of your own volition, and were trying to use your position as a mod to push a certain perspective.

 

[The Original Sixth]

What the fuck guys? It's just the WHO numbers. Even if they're objectively wrong, you can do better than fire accusations like that. CHILL.

 

[Bacle]

What the fuck guys? It's just the WHO numbers. Even if they're objectively wrong, you can do better than fire accusations like that. CHILL.

Without knowing that LordSunhawk's posts were done at Zoe's request, how were we to know it wasn't being done in spite of the inaccuracies, simply to push a narrative?

The only reason I made this thread was because of the warning Terthna got for arguing back against LordSunhawk and reasonably assuming, based on the info we had at the time, that LordSunhawk was posting those numbers regardless of any faults with where they came from. It very much looked like mod overreach and trying to push a narrative with mod powers, to the point of punishing people for questioning LordSunhawk's motives.

We know better now, but at the time, we didn't have the knowledge LordSunhawk was doing all of those posts at Zoe's request.

 

[Harlock]

I would suggest here as the best overall source so far

Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Johns Hopkins experts in global public health, infectious disease, and emergency preparedness have been at the forefront of the international response to COVID-19.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

it keeps a tally of cases drawn from several sources including social media, it is more accurate than the WHO but it does point out that the cases it numbers are for those confirmed in a lab test.

That ultimately is going to be the thing that skews every single source, this isn't Ebola where every single case needs medical help and therefore we can track 100% of infections. We only track those bad enough to go to hospital or who managed to get tested. Given there are relatively few people getting tested confirmed cases will be artificially low worldwide.

The WHO figures are useful in providing a picture, but they themselves freely admit that the numbers are not an accurate reflection and that no official source can know the real truth as the virus is too new to understand its real infection rate.

It is useful information to have, I wouldn't base my plans on it but it does give us some useful facts for places outside of China and those are going to be far more valuable in coming weeks, and also more accurate.
That said use the link above for the most accurate counter I've found accepting the limitations in how confirmed cases are classified. It will be increasingly useful data to have as time goes on and far superior to twitter panic mongering

 

[Bacle]

I would suggest here as the best overall source so far

Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Johns Hopkins experts in global public health, infectious disease, and emergency preparedness have been at the forefront of the international response to COVID-19.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

it keeps a tally of cases drawn from several sources including social media, it is more accurate than the WHO but it does point out that the cases it numbers are for those confirmed in a lab test.

That ultimately is going to be the thing that skews every single source, this isn't Ebola where every single case needs medical help and therefore we can track 100% of infections. We only track those bad enough to go to hospital or who managed to get tested. Given there are relatively few people getting tested confirmed cases will be artificially low worldwide.

The WHO figures are useful in providing a picture, but they themselves freely admit that the numbers are not an accurate reflection and that no official source can know the real truth as the virus is too new to understand its real infection rate.

It is useful information to have, I wouldn't base my plans on it but it does give us some useful facts for places outside of China and those are going to be far more valuable in coming weeks, and also more accurate.
That said use the link above for the most accurate counter I've found accepting the limitations in how confirmed cases are classified. It will be increasingly useful data to have as time goes on and far superior to twitter panic mongering

I think Johns Hopkins is a source most would trust.

I would certainly trust them over the WHO.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Personally, I think it’s best to take everything with a small helping of salt and also not to attack other people for thinking differently.

If you don’t believe the numbers coming out of China, then you shouldn’t be penalized for saying so. If you have confidence in the WHO to report accurate statistics(within say a one percent margin for error, lack of information or deception) then you shouldn’t be penalized for that either.

People should be allowed to doubt.