The supply exists, if we're talking about women of good moral character. I know as much from personal experience. Whether that supply is enough to "fulfill the demand" is the wrong question to be asking. Have you written yourself off as not being in that "slim minority of men"?
MGTOW, Minimalism, dating and the Establishment reaction.
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The supply exists, if we're talking about women of good moral character. I know as much from personal experience. Whether that supply is enough to "fulfill the demand" is the wrong question to be asking. Have you written yourself off as not being in that "slim minority of men"?
The supply isn't there, and hilariously what little supply there IS, is shared by a minority of men. Lmao.
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Given this is the thread about men exiting the dating market, yes it is. You made your own thread for your pathetic nigh-theocratic dodge of the underlying issues, you can keep that nonsense there.
If I'm somehow not, then my success somebody else won't be. That's what the disparity between supply of faithful wives and men you wish to seek them means. Thus, it doesn't scale, and so it's not answering why a large portion of men decide to exit the rat-race it has turned into.
Ixian
Professional Gatekeeper
I am also married to a woman who is not a feminist.
The fact is, MOST women identify as feminists, or hold tight to feminist ideals. That isn't really disputable.
King of Light
Well-known member
The thing about abortion is.
It is not about whether a woman is 'free' or not but about whether the fetus is alive or not.
If we assume that the fetus is alive, the question is "why can't a father/mother kill his children?"
Outside that? Adoption should maintain for I don't think a rape victim should be forced to raise that kid.
It is not about whether a woman is 'free' or not but about whether the fetus is alive or not.
If we assume that the fetus is alive, the question is "why can't a father/mother kill his children?"
Outside that? Adoption should maintain for I don't think a rape victim should be forced to raise that kid.
King of Light
Well-known member
This video reminds me of a good answer on why that movie caused that fight.
Male desire bad.
That is all.
Dauerschriff
Well-known member
Thank you christian guy.
Though i promote the absolute denial and hostility to everything even remotely christian (and montheistic) in value not evil. Which for a christian i suppose is evil to you.
I suppose all societies before Jesus and Abraham or that rejected them to the core were inherently demonic.
Denial of human exceptionalism or the soulrealm, lead to a definition of morality that is organic in origin.
I don't oppose death penalty because i oppose killing per se, but because the State cannot and must not be trusted.
Same for slavery.
In Plenty of country we also do euthanasia too.
And the Pre christian (jewsih excluded) answer is ... He can. Solved. Because we are just cells. Or the Gods of Olympus gave us children to do as we please.
Hence abortion is a better deal; it avoids the cost of childbearing which are significant. I recall that each child carried to term increase homosexuality and disformity risk by damaging percent per percent the female body.
But hey, according to some, women are sex slaves to be bred against their will are they not?
Do true Trisomic and severely disabled fetus get to live? Do you have to care for useless offspring (negative per nature, because divert your focus from vital ones) according to the two experts on parasites that can compare islands to living organisms?
Those that will also die within days after birth? Cost enough to buy a new home in health medication while being paraplegic brainless for life?
I have a good old roman answer: Up to the parents, no help given. Very dissuasive. Society and individuals pursue their interests. born unproductive are not in my interests.
My Penis is mine to decide to use as long as the other party consent.
My ex Aborted, once because Birth control was screwed by antibiotics. I am very glad she did.
I won't make children if i pay for them and "you" (taxation, corporate greed, retirement benefits) benefits from them, and not me.
And the greatest cost of children is loss of opportunities not money. The time of agricultural labour is gone.
"Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome." - Charlie Munger
If most people cared for their children the world would not look like what it is. They have feelings and emotions, but no commitment. Gosh with abortion and declining birthrate, perhaps those who don't want care for children will stop making them.
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>MFW literal baby murder is normalized in 2025
Gross.
Gross.
mrttao
Well-known member
And my hands are mine to use.
And If I use my hands to murder someone I will go to prison, losing my right to freedom. actions have consequences.
And if you or I use a penis to impregnate someone, we have an obligation both moral and legal to raise them.
And if we do a horrible enough job can go to prison for child abuse.
No, I do not benefit from you just tossing a baby to the orphanage.
The cost in both money and harm to society far outweight it. Statistically speaking that.
An individual person can be a net positive of course. but overall this is terrible
How utterly vile.
To celebrate the murder of your own child.
King of Light
Well-known member
My only issue with your take is that nothing really would say that it is wrong to, let's say, murder the same woman in question or even a rando in the street as well. They are all cells as well.
I mean, think about it. Murder is the forced erasure of someone's life without their consent, so by the mere fact the idea is rejecting consent (we don't know if the baby wants to die or not) you could estabilish that even slavery would not be wrong because 'we are all cells'.
The issue is that your principle does NOT give a moral reason or a moral rationale to respect other people's freedoms. So sure, you would be valid into saying that a woman can abort for the fetus are cells.
But one could say it is valid to turn a woman into a sex slave because she is only cells. So yeah. Abortion Free. But so sex slavery, murder and others.
A better solution is to really allow the woman in question undergo tubal ligation and ignore if they complain later.
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Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Because as it turns out few people see a barely-discernable clump of cells as a "baby". When you look at the details, only the first trimester has majority support for legality, mostly covering the period where it's still questionable whether the detected pregnancy will come to term without intervention.
The logic for absolutely any termination of pregnancy being baby-murder relies heavily on the notion of life beginning at conception, which has horrendous downstream effects from forcing the luck of the draw regarding congenital defects and fertility complications.
I admit that even I think that if it's super early, it could be permissible to kill the embryo. But I think only really fucking early. Like, ladies, pick if you want a kid or not, there's no inbetween.
mrttao
Well-known member
That person actually literally argued for post birth deletion of unwanted children.
Although to be fair he did say he PREFERS pre-birth abortion.
So even he realizes somewhere in his mind that this is murdering a person.
Dauerschriff
Well-known member
It is not about moral reason @King of Light . It is about social order. It is all about interest. remove the christian philosophy influence:
If Life is not inherently good, Death is not inherently evil.
Useless mouth to feed (aka roman baby born or unborn misformed whatever): irrelevant. No rational agent is endangered whatever is the fate choosen by the pater familias.
Psycho stab person in the street: chaos. Disturb public peace. Threaten trade.
Sexual slavery was practised (and is still) for untold thousands of years until very recently, as awful as it sounds, it did lead to our societies. We built Nuclear physics without women being allowed to work and vote.
To put it simply, the architect that will draw the map of my garage, i don't care very much about him. I pay him, he works.
Eventually if come push to shove, legionnaires fight together against the barbarians, they don't hold each others hands.
And Barbarians simply means strangers. Not evil monsters.
People die one way or another. No big deal as long as tape water continue to flow. We tolerate war, because it is somewhat organized murder. Taxation because it is somehow structured extortion. Civilization is what is important. Humans need Hierarchies.
Monotheism subverted it.
Be for abortion or be against contraceptives. Because Sperms-ovums etc are also living cells wishing to survive. we are killing untold trillions by denying them to have 4 billions women pregnant 9 months out of 12 for 30 years of their lives.
We are just meatbags. It is no big deal in the end. We will return to the Dao, into the nothingness we came. Otherwise life would be tragic.
You could look at the Pyramids and say X% of the past population toiled and starved to build them. X% that now are sand and dust, and fish and Nile crocodile and egyptian reed silica.
It is a comedy.
If billions of people were to be turned into slaves robots tomorrow, it would not really matter to most of the survivors in 30 years, and not at all in 130. We need the others labor, not the others.
If Life is not inherently good, Death is not inherently evil.
Useless mouth to feed (aka roman baby born or unborn misformed whatever): irrelevant. No rational agent is endangered whatever is the fate choosen by the pater familias.
Psycho stab person in the street: chaos. Disturb public peace. Threaten trade.
Sexual slavery was practised (and is still) for untold thousands of years until very recently, as awful as it sounds, it did lead to our societies. We built Nuclear physics without women being allowed to work and vote.
To put it simply, the architect that will draw the map of my garage, i don't care very much about him. I pay him, he works.
Eventually if come push to shove, legionnaires fight together against the barbarians, they don't hold each others hands.
And Barbarians simply means strangers. Not evil monsters.
People die one way or another. No big deal as long as tape water continue to flow. We tolerate war, because it is somewhat organized murder. Taxation because it is somehow structured extortion. Civilization is what is important. Humans need Hierarchies.
Monotheism subverted it.
Be for abortion or be against contraceptives. Because Sperms-ovums etc are also living cells wishing to survive. we are killing untold trillions by denying them to have 4 billions women pregnant 9 months out of 12 for 30 years of their lives.
We are just meatbags. It is no big deal in the end. We will return to the Dao, into the nothingness we came. Otherwise life would be tragic.
You could look at the Pyramids and say X% of the past population toiled and starved to build them. X% that now are sand and dust, and fish and Nile crocodile and egyptian reed silica.
It is a comedy.
If billions of people were to be turned into slaves robots tomorrow, it would not really matter to most of the survivors in 30 years, and not at all in 130. We need the others labor, not the others.
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mrttao
Well-known member
Here is the thing, morality affects social cohesion.
To look at a morality-less society, just look at communism or megacorp-socialism. Everyone is trying to fuck over everyone else because there is no morality. And the result is a social cohesion of zero.
Yes, all those unwanted babies are bad for society.
The "solution" of "just kill all those unwanted babies" is even worse for society.
It cause real tangible harm to the moral and social fabric as it poisons society.
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King of Light
Well-known member
Structured Evil is not somehow 'correct'. By your argument, there would be no evil in what your enemies (or those you see as the 'evil') are doing. Honestly by that frame of view it makes no difference.
Actually? By your argument there is no problem into forcing women to be slaves (or even YOU or anyone) because it is only a matter about whether we 'structure' it and give some stability. So what was the point really of your pro choice argument? It is about structure/stability, not whether it is right or not.
King of Light
Well-known member
Actually? I will make a statement you folks will disagree.
Victorian Morality/August Comte's philosophy of 'altruism' and modern welfare-state ethics are the reason why Redpill/MGTOW even EXISTS in first place.
Honestly that is WHY I scorn Victorian ethics. Woman are NOT morally superior to men, and men SHOULD not be treated as expendable piece of rubbish. Fuck Victorian ethics.
Also fuck Comte with a titanium rod the size of a lamp post.
Victorian Morality/August Comte's philosophy of 'altruism' and modern welfare-state ethics are the reason why Redpill/MGTOW even EXISTS in first place.
Honestly that is WHY I scorn Victorian ethics. Woman are NOT morally superior to men, and men SHOULD not be treated as expendable piece of rubbish. Fuck Victorian ethics.
Also fuck Comte with a titanium rod the size of a lamp post.
Dauerschriff
Well-known member
Disagreeing so hard.
Socialism is a rebrand Christianity without heaven, at least without the ability of the christians to find to quote Saint Thomas of Aquinas,
"The blessed in the kingdom of heaven will see the punishments of the damned, in order that their bliss be more delightful for them."
The horror of socialism is that by pretending to be good everything is allowed, no need to think anymore, a thing masses like masters really likes: satisfied working class in their own moral superiority.
Morality is about indoctrination and evolution instinct.
Social cohesion of the Romans was pretty damn high until the Empire and the christian era (6 women convert for each men strangely. Slaves values for slaves).
Others moralities are possible and much more efficient.
Expending energy to ban abortion is absurd. Expanding energy to ban irrelevant behavior is a waste as well.
When the public ressources are used away from strategic purpose they are lost forever. We live in scarcity per nature.
I have no time, desire and will to expend the taxpayers life and money on petty desires of theocrats, whether it is banning or subsidizing anomalies.
If i had to believe in a God(S?!), it would be a terrible one, a bad boy (perhaps my lecture of the torah linger there, but good as good dude, nice guy, caring about his believers truly makes laugh. God is a superior form of life end. He owns nothing, can lie at will, and bullshit as he wants, what you are gonna do, humans ants? ).
beiseite on culture transmission
However if you notice why Judaism survived so long alongside others minorities groups with similar model (Chalceen, Druzess, among others) : Keep a tight leash on women and children, because, he who marries a foreign women will breed a foreign child. Hence he who does that, will not gain ressources of the group (families) to raise an outsider. Converts can hardly be trusted.
100% of my families for since at least 1815 has had the same belief, religion (i don't ban an occasional rape or affair possibly, i speak of culture not genetic), and lived throughout Europe.
The idea of marrying someone from 2000km of different native language but same social-ethno-cultural background was perfectly normal. Marrying a local neighbours catholic would be excommunication.
Any fools that believe they were really nationals of their countries is a lyier. They served armies against their will, and probably fought each other. Some of my families fought on different side of WWI. They never hold grudge to each others, because they did not viewed themselves as Belgians or French or Germans or poles or Russians beyond the cultural minor implication. It was auxiliary. One of them was an officer. It was a job.
Despite knowing the languages, culture etc, living there for 90 years, in the end, those who embraced local culture (or money) thoroughly are gone from the genealogy.
Those who mixed were rightfully despised and rejected and if not them, their bastards families.
Hence State education destroying traditional identities is the only true goal. Same as religious schooling.
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@King of Light , the welfare is the extension of abrahamic belief of universal brotherhood under the tyranny of a priest class.
There can not be no real right or wrong in the universe. Dinosaurs dying was neither, nor are the fact you were born instead of random sperm 665171.
However women exists, can pick up guns, strike etc; that give them "rights". Babies, embryos, sperms, ovum, and grass can't, hence it get nothing.
If chimp could shoot gun proper, they would get right to vote.
On the subject. Men, we are expendables, from Nature perspective. Sperms vs Ovum.
How many men do societies need to rebuild after a war? a half-third of women entire population. We are the hunters, the warriors, the rulers, the sacrifice of death...
Wives, they are the future, and treasure and the objects and the sacrifice through life.
Evolution is a bitch.
There is a reason why in Sparta (that outlived Thebes and Athens classic era), only men dead on the battlefield and women of childbirth could get a sepulcher.
--------
Human Anthropology is very complicated.
All these MGTOW, Abortion, alimonies, red pill etc, are just the question of sex and reproduction of humans that will plague any living primates forever.
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Dauerschriff
Well-known member
No Disagreement at all on the objective fact. Read Auguste Comte too, high french technocratic bureaucrat, that devised an ideology that give his caste all the power to rule. how surprising.
The State is actively trying to sabotage families now.
Victorian era is the rise of the Central State and the bureaucratic class (that extend outside and inside the bourgeoisie).
Manorialism died. Nation were bred from the air. the French Revolution was lead by lawyers and clergyman that attempted to centralize power, under one big parliament with one big law for one big country that did not existed. the New Priest caste.
All this welfare and public education is made to create loyal workers to the state apparatus that took the place of the Nobility and Clergy, as the new nobility and clergy.
If people kept regional/clanic identities, Large States would have collapsed.
Note: Big (in diversity/size) Country are usually much more leftist for this reason, to keep the tax cattle.
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Just saw a graph showing the rise in male virginity skyrocketing post 2008.
Now now, what was invented then...
Oh that's right, the greatest sin of humanity thus far.
Now now, what was invented then...
Oh that's right, the greatest sin of humanity thus far.