#MeToo and Cancel Culture: Friday is bring your own torches and pitchforks day!

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder

Someone's going to be raped. Financially.

Baby baby ohhhhh.

I just realized that this means Justin Bieber is contributing to real reform of our current accusation laden culture. If he can set the precedent, then he makes it at least some degree harder to simply toss allegations about wildly.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Recently he got back into religion praising Jesus. A sharp turn from the time he and some Brazilian chick he had a fling with got a video of themselves together.

Even if it’s probably some publicity stunt, I hope the guy finds genuine faith and it helps with whatever other problems he’s got

I may not like him, but I know he’s got a good voice

That said, he’s probably laughing when he realizes so much of Hollywood are essentially “paper tigers” and he’s getting cash and popularity
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik

Not fictional, but these guys aren’t going WOKE AF

Here’s too optimism

Daily Mail said:
A third executive, head of global culture marketing Florian Klaass, has also left after he allegedly approved a racist slide shown in a meeting earlier this year.

The leaked slide, shown at a meeting in Detroit, is said to have shown racist stereotypes from countries around the world.

Labels on the map allegedly said 'they do our laundry' on Mexico, 'they make our stuff' on China, 'evil-doers' on the Middle East with an arrow indicating 'bombs go here', and 'zoo animals come from here' on Africa.

Oh dear... :p
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik

Valiran

I am a sad capybara.
Once again much what we know of Christopher Columbus's time as a governor is from his political enemies who have every reason to distort the truth in order to gain favor/power. There are arguments that he made some "token" efforts to look after native rights and curtail 'small' abuses.

An asshole yes but the argument we was worse then the standards of the time is difficult to prove because what evidence we have comes from his worst enemies.
Not just his enemies, but his allies and even his own journals and letters corroborate the horrible things he did; not only toward the native population but also the Spaniards living under his rule. Apparently, this even included letting prepubescent girls being sold into sexual slavery, which I hope we can all agree is wrong no matter the era it happened in.

You also convinced me to look up some reliable sources on Columbus, and I have a list for anyone who might be interested:
  • Varela, C. (2006). La caída de Cristóbal Colón: el juicio de Bobadilla. Marcial Pons Historia.
  • Cristóbal Colón. Textos y documentos completos
  • Pons, F. M. (1992). The politics of forced Indian labour in La Española 1493–1520. Antiquity, 66(250), 130-139.
  • Cook, N. D. (2002). Sickness, starvation, and death in early Hispaniola. Journal of Interdisciplinary History, 32(3), 349-386.
  • A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies
  • Szászdi, I. (2012). Castilian Justice and Columbian Injustice: the End of the Government of Christopher Columbus in Hispaniola. Journal on European History of Law, (2), 53-58.*
  • Deagan, K. A., & Cruxent, J. M. (2002). Columbus's outpost among the Taínos: Spain and America at La Isabela, 1493-1498. Yale University Press.
Fuck off. Columbus was a better man than any of his colleagues. He discovered America and brought news about it back to Spain. The statues stay, and whiners can go colonize Spain if they hate it so much here.

The nerve of these people, demonizing the heroes of the past because they are unPC, why don't y'all start digging up the graves of confiderate graves and put them on trial for slavery? Precedent for THAT is present after all.
First of all, is it too much to ask for civility? Telling me to "fuck off" is not conducive to productive discussion.

Second of all, "heroes of the past"? Columbus' expedition to the Americas and coming back to tell the Crown "Yes, there's land over there." doesn't make him a hero, it makes him one of the great explorers of the era. Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone's a scumbag; it's just a matter of figuring out why. Everyone's also a saint, and to deny either is to deny the reality of human nature; that we are all equally capable of both good and evil. Cosby's history of sexual abuse is extensive; but he also was one of the few voices in entertainment to speak out against the degradation of family values within the black community for decades. Does that make up for what he did to those women? Of course not; but neither does what he did to them erase what good he did do.

Cosby is both a rapist, as well as "America's Dad"; but before either he is a human being, not a scapegoat for anyone's righteous indignation. He is serving his sentence; let's leave it at that.
You make a fair point, and after some consideration, I'm starting to think that it was a bad idea to destroy the statue. Better to just put it in a museum somewhere and raise another that commemorates someone from Baltimore. Let's see...

Samuel Chase, who signed the Declaration of Independence and served as a Supreme Court Justice until his death in 1811.

Johns Hopkins, a noted philanthropist who founded the hospital which bears his name, among other institutions.

John Pendleton Kennedy, who served as both Secretary of the Navy and as a Representative for Maryland. Also a noted abolitionist and proponent of religious tolerance.

William Paca, another signatory of the Declaration of Independence and served as a Representative, Delegate to the First and Second Continental Congresses, and as a judge.

Elizabeth Ann Seton, the first person from what would become the United States to be canonized by the Catholic Church.

Andrew Sterett, a naval officer during the Barbary Wars...and captain of the USS Enterprise.😁

Yeah, this is a problem I have with the...black and white, view of the world being pushed by all the activists these days. It's like saying one mistake is enough to make every good thing a historical figure has done meaningless. It completely ignores factors like the context of the time, literally judging them by the values of our time which simply did not and would never have applied to their time. I mean...the logical conclusion of such a...oblique, point of view is essentially the same train of logic that supports Hitler was a x, so if you're an x as well, you must be like Hitler.
I believe that demonizing and whitewashing are two sides of a coin minted from lies. It's better to take a "warts and all" view of history; do your utmost to be as factual as possible and admit the limits of the information we have. Present the facts as clearly and without bias as possible, and let people judge for themselves whether or not they want to admire someone.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
You make a fair point, and after some consideration, I'm starting to think that it was a bad idea to destroy the statue. Better to just put it in a museum somewhere and raise another that commemorates someone from Baltimore. Let's see...
If I could make a further point, whatever is to be done with any statue should be decided with a vote from the community; not the will of a violent mob. Because it renders the social contract, the very legitimacy of the state over the individual, null and void, and teaches people that they only way to get what they want, is through violence.
 

Urabrask Revealed

Let them go.
Founder
First of all, is it too much to ask for civility?
Yes.

"I insult your historical figures, I demand you erase your culture and history for *justice*, I tear down your statues because they are *offensive*, but for good's sake, let's stay civil!"

How about you piss off? Your breed has shown they will never stop until all *white* history has been wiped from the books, and I will be damned if you are given even one inch.

So I repeat myself: Fuck off!
 
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Lanmandragon

Well-known member
Yes.

"I insult your historical figures, I demand you erase your culture and history for *justice*, I tear down your statues because they are *offensive*, but for good's sake, let's stay civil!"

How about you piss off? Your breed has shown they will never stop until all *white* history has been wiped from the books, and I will be damned if you are given even one inch.

So I repeat myself: Fuck off!
Sure but cold calculating anger not hot irrational anger that's a self own.
 

LifeisTiresome

Well-known member
Yes.

"I insult your historical figures, I demand you erase your culture and history for *justice*, I tear down your statues because they are *offensive*, but for good's sake, let's stay civil!"

How about you piss off? Your breed has shown they will never stop until all *white* history has been wiped from the books, and I will be damned if you are given even one inch.

So I repeat myself: Fuck off!
You are getting it Urabrask. Arguing with leftists is a waste of time. They already have their minds made up. They will never apply fairness, context or nuance to your historical figures. But if arabs or Ottomans did horrible shit to the native americans or whoever, they would excuse it and speak of nuance and context. Its all bullshit

Also, hilarious to hear of leftist speaking of civility when I recall them speaking of that being bad last year I believe.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Yes.

"I insult your historical figures, I demand you erase your culture and history for *justice*, I tear down your statues because they are *offensive*, but for good's sake, let's stay civil!"

How about you piss off? Your breed has shown they will never stop until all *white* history has been wiped from the books, and I will be damned if you are given even one inch.

So I repeat myself: Fuck off!

I'll be honest, it does come off a little hostile. I don't think he was trying to troll you or was acting intentionally obtuse. Just stated his opinion. I think tearing down the statue of Columbus was stupid as well and agree that for many of the rioters it's an attempt at reframing and erasing history but Valiran's initial post in and of itself seemed fair enough.

If you end up talking to a wall, then it's a wall. But he hasn't seemed to call you names or strawman or red herring your arguments yet and hasn't compared you to a War Crimes denier or Sex Crimes apologist or even act particular smug yet so I would choose civility in this case unless there's a reason not to. ;)
 
Yes.

"I insult your historical figures, I demand you erase your culture and history for *justice*, I tear down your statues because they are *offensive*, but for good's sake, let's stay civil!"

How about you piss off? Your breed has shown they will never stop until all *white* history has been wiped from the books, and I will be damned if you are given even one inch.

So I repeat myself: Fuck off!
You are getting it Urabrask. Arguing with leftists is a waste of time. They already have their minds made up. They will never apply fairness, context or nuance to your historical figures. But if arabs or Ottomans did horrible shit to the native americans or whoever, they would excuse it and speak of nuance and context. Its all bullshit

Also, hilarious to hear of leftist speaking of civility when I recall them speaking of that being bad last year I believe.


Look guys I know I'm in no position of athority, but if the lines are drawn and the minds have already been made up then would it be better to just shut up about the subject entirely.there is not going to be a war, no one is going to duel pistols on the field of honor, the revolution will not be televised. all this threatening insulting, and shouting past each is just putting each other in a bad mood and is going to result in jack squat.

when I was growing up A common proverb was. "If you have nothing worthwhile to say to a person, then don't say anything."
 

LifeisTiresome

Well-known member
Look guys I know I'm in no position of athority, but if the lines are drawn and the minds have already been made up then would it be better to just shut up about the subject entirely.there is not going to be a war, no one is going to duel pistols on the field of honor, the revolution will not be televised. all this threatening insulting, and shouting past each is just putting each other in a bad mood and is going to result in jack squat.

when I was growing up A common proverb was. "If you have nothing worthwhile to say to a person, then don't say anything."
I'm just commending Urabrask for finally stop giving a shit about leftist nonsense when it comes to historical figures.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
You are getting it Urabrask. Arguing with leftists is a waste of time. They already have their minds made up. They will never apply fairness, context or nuance to your historical figures. But if arabs or Ottomans did horrible shit to the native americans or whoever, they would excuse it and speak of nuance and context. Its all bullshit

Also, hilarious to hear of leftist speaking of civility when I recall them speaking of that being bad last year I believe.

Some leftists are only such because they're naive, or have never been outside of the echochamber. Some of them can be reasoned with, though it can still be frustrating because there's just so much worldview divergence.

They're not very likely to be he extremely loud and argumentative ones, though.
 

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