#MeToo and Cancel Culture: Friday is bring your own torches and pitchforks day!

[CarlManvers2019]

Well, there is a reason why I believe in the Republicanism of old. They had strong traditions of citizen virtue, of course the franchise was limited, but if we can make sure that the same people that would be virtuous under those systems are virtuous and bring in some others. we'd be able to manage better.

I'd say that part of the problem, is that we lack virtue. If people had virtue they'd realize that these things are not worth mobbing people over, or even that it is morally wrong to mob people like a pack of rabid hyenas.

How exactly would you make it so that votes are by the guys who are most likely to have “matured”?

I mean being old doesn’t make you mature or smart or wise, you can be an insane commie decades after it momentarily fell

Say, what’s fascistic about the Starship Troopers way of getting votes, government service with military being the quickest way

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Though even that maybe not enough as people have an inherent need/desire to be involved in somebody else’s business

And it’s within a government and its employees & leaders’ interests to grow in power

There will always be busybodies, but it is key that neither state nor big business enable them. That's the real difficulty.

I believe a good argument for a stronger state, however, is how one good reign can fix the fucks ups of multiple predecessors. Henry VII picked up the pieces of the Wars of the Roses and not only stabilized the country but put its finances back together and made England one of the strongest Kingdoms in Europe. Democratic leaders trying to put in desperately needed reform get hamstrung at every turn by systems designed to reign in power yet have completely failed to stop someone from really buggering the country up.

Well, there is a reason why I believe in the Republicanism of old. They had strong traditions of citizen virtue, of course the franchise was limited, but if we can make sure that the same people that would be virtuous under those systems are virtuous and bring in some others. we'd be able to manage better.

I'd say that part of the problem, is that we lack virtue. If people had virtue they'd realize that these things are not worth mobbing people over, or even that it is morally wrong to mob people like a pack of rabid hyenas.

I'm convinced the Roman Republic only failed as badly as it did because it restricted the franchise a little too much. Indeed, I think the Republic envisioned by Heinlein in Starship Troopers looks to be an actually functional state that isn't too shit to live under.

Any attempt to teach virtue these days is regarded as authoritarian unfortunately. Who knows, perhaps a bit of absolutism is required here and there to keep society functioning.

I’d take a look at some of his arguments. In particular, Moldbug doesn’t believe limited government is possible.

Limited government can only be possible when Liberals organize into a cohesive movement to pressure the aforementioned government into remaining limited. As Liberals can't politically organize to save their lives and instantly jump away from any kind of authority, this hasn't happened.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Oh yes, and an even bigger point in favor of stronger states that are relatively secure in their power (at least in my view) is they actually understand that penny pinching with the armed forces is a horrible fucking idea.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Oh yes, and an even bigger point in favor of stronger states that are relatively secure in their power (at least in my view) is they actually understand that penny pinching with the armed forces is a horrible fucking idea.

But Militarism=Fascism & #NotRealSocialism, or having so much money into stuff for killing is like evil when it should be put into welfare programs

And a tank costs like so much

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

How exactly would you make it so that votes are by the guys who are most likely to have “matured”?

I mean being old doesn’t make you mature or smart or wise, you can be an insane commie decades after it momentarily fell

Say, what’s fascistic about the Starship Troopers way of getting votes, government service with military being the quickest way

You probably don't. What you want to do is have enough people in the population who are virtuous or have their head screwed in right, so they make the right votes. Which is the point I am trying to make. In any system there will always be those who are not virtuous or outright depraved, but they should be at least counterbalanced by those who are virtuous or have some measure of virtue. I count myself in the latter category, I believe I do have a decent amount of virtue, but not sufficient by my own measure.

I mentioned in my essay that communist countries have always treated workers like shit and had massive inequalities between rich and poor. But their propaganda was always “workers, if you don’t support us, the big bad capitalists will do w

I’d take a look at some of his arguments. In particular, Moldbug doesn’t believe limited government is possible.


There’s much to like within classical republicanism.

Indeed there is. And there is much to like about other systems, which is why, perhaps the old concept of mixed government (and not the restricted tripartite form) is useful. Since you can combine one or more, right form of government together to achieve a better result, or a deviant regime with a right one to achieve an adequate one.

There will always be busybodies, but it is key that neither state nor big business enable them. That's the real difficulty.

I believe a good argument for a stronger state, however, is how one good reign can fix the fucks ups of multiple predecessors. Henry VII picked up the pieces of the Wars of the Roses and not only stabilized the country but put its finances back together and made England one of the strongest Kingdoms in Europe. Democratic leaders trying to put in desperately needed reform get hamstrung at every turn by systems designed to reign in power yet have completely failed to stop someone from really buggering the country up.



I'm convinced the Roman Republic only failed as badly as it did because it restricted the franchise a little too much. Indeed, I think the Republic envisioned by Heinlein in Starship Troopers looks to be an actually functional state that isn't too shit to live under.

Any attempt to teach virtue these days is regarded as authoritarian unfortunately. Who knows, perhaps a bit of absolutism is required here and there to keep society functioning.



Limited government can only be possible when Liberals organize into a cohesive movement to pressure the aforementioned government into remaining limited. As Liberals can't politically organize to save their lives and instantly jump away from any kind of authority, this hasn't happened.

Yes, that is a problem, but perhaps we need to adjust how virtue is taught. Teach people to have the proper faculties to acquire and maintain virtue, while being more reserved in teaching it. Though I am just trying to spitball ideas for how to teach virtue in a way that would be acceptable to a pluralistic society...

 

[Lord Sovereign]

But Militarism=Fascism & #NotRealSocialism, or having so much money into stuff for killing is like evil when it should be put into welfare programs

And a tank costs like so much

I know this is sarcasm, but no god damn it. It is actually peanuts to maintain a strong army in comparison to social programs. The United States Military Budget is utterly dwarfed by the Welfare State. Not to mention how a Welfare State is worth jack shit in a time of war, but you can't tell Lefties that.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I know this is sarcasm, but no god damn it. It is actually peanuts to maintain a strong army in comparison to social programs. The United States Military Budget is utterly dwarfed by the Welfare State. Not to mention how a Welfare State is worth jack shit in a time of war, but you can't tell Lefties that.

How well versed are people with actual economics beyond the basic supply & demand, GDP stuff

Don’t think Economics class is gonna explain the problems of a command economy or a communist one

Or actual costs though? I think part of the problem is too many people are more likely to listen to ideologies than stuff about actual trade transactions

Which extends even to non/purely-economic stuff, which is why people don’y exactly know what really keeps minorities down

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Oh yes, and an even bigger point in favor of stronger states that are relatively secure in their power (at least in my view) is they actually understand that penny pinching with the armed forces is a horrible fucking idea.

Ah, I forgot to reply. I guess I should. Indeed, it is a horrible idea, you always need to be able to defend yourself, because even if you are beloved by the world, there will always be someone who will you ill. Always be someone who will try to harm you.

But Militarism=Fascism & #NotRealSocialism, or having so much money into stuff for killing is like evil when it should be put into welfare programs

And a tank costs like so much

You can't hug your children with nuclear arms! Make peace, not war, maaaaan.

I know this is sarcasm, but no god damn it. It is actually peanuts to maintain a strong army in comparison to social programs. The United States Military Budget is utterly dwarfed by the Welfare State. Not to mention how a Welfare State is worth jack shit in a time of war, but you can't tell Lefties that.

It is almost as if we can have both at the same time, if only we didn't toss money into a bottomless hole and actually spent it wisely.

 

[The Name of Love]

Not that this isn't interesting, but I think we got off track here. My little essay was about what I considered to be the root of the problem when it comes to #MeToo and Cancel Culture. Does anyone here have anything to say on that topic?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Not that this isn't interesting, but I think we got off track here. My little essay was about what I considered to be the root of the problem when it comes to #MeToo and Cancel Culture. Does anyone here have anything to say on that topic?

I’ll say this, I think your Western Men need to regrow their spines through something akin to combat or military service

Actually, put the women through it as well, a good drill sergeant or commanding officer could in some way be a substitute father figure

“Barbarianism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It is the whim of circumstance. And barbarianism must ultimately triumph”

― Robert E. Howard

As much as I think REH is romanticizing barbarianism, he does sorta have a point about how "decadent" even bronze-to-iron age civilizations can get when they start getting fucking delusional and pretending to be "intellectuals"

 

[The Name of Love]

I’ll say this, I think your Western Men need to regrow their spines through something akin to combat or military service

Actually, put the women through it as well, a good drill sergeant or commanding officer could in some way be a substitute father figure

“Barbarianism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It is the whim of circumstance. And barbarianism must ultimately triumph”

― Robert E. Howard

As much as I think REH is romanticizing barbarianism, he does sorta have a point about how "decadent" even bronze-to-iron age civilizations can get when they start getting fucking delusional and pretending to be "intellectuals"

I mean, I can understand the sentiment, but I was sort of asking for you opinion on what I wrote.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I mean, I can understand the sentiment, but I was sort of asking for you opinion on what I wrote.

I just think that "Civilization" for all its made, is a danger due to how much huge numbers of people can swallow each other up and also even without so much in-terms of goods for all, can go extremely decadent and crazy

Modern day feminism is just one of those examples of so-called civilized people trying to be smart

If you want civilization, it has to be decentralized as possible or small towns at most AND EVERYBODY MUST BE ABLE TO FIGHT & DEFEND THEMSELVES

Rather than resort to a single law enforcement/military to do it. Feudalism itself is also sorta "centralized" and communist powers, especially with "Party Members" can also be sorta feudalistic

It’s not JUST men who need to relearn their STRENGTH, and recognize it through actual DISCIPLINE in order to survive, but women also

And learn to apply this STRENGTH TEMPERED WITH DISCIPLINE(which both feed into or cause one another)to even non-direct combative situations in order to truly survive

 

[Husky_Khan]

Not that this isn't interesting, but I think we got off track here. My little essay was about what I considered to be the root of the problem when it comes to #MeToo and Cancel Culture. Does anyone here have anything to say on that topic?

It's a lot to unpack... but after trying to read/browse over it while formulating a response... I guess I would... generally agree with the point of view, though it seems to be casting a very broad net.

The Anatomy of a Witch Hunt makes much sense to me and the metaphors/examples seem generally on point. I like the setup in regards to how a modern day witch hunt is. There is a lot of self justification for the modern day witch hunt by labeling those who disagree with you or target "disadvantaged" groups like you say. And the targeting of these individuals has seemed to expand (no one likes Nazis or Klanners, but now it's expanded to Republicans and Conservatives and Traditionalists, it used to be that you disagreed strongly with things like Genocide, but now it's been expanded to being pro-Life, anti-gay marriage or skeptical of global warming or that health care isn't a public good etc). If you aren't accepting not merely tolerant of gay marriage or transgendered individuals, it's not just disagreeable, it's not just wrong, it's the equivalent of oppression... of disenfranchisement... of mass murder... of Nazi-esque behavior.

Simultaneously... while Leftists make the leap of logic from a simple stance (supporting traditional marriage, drone strikes, or gun rights, having raditionalist religious values etc) into being implicitly authoritarian, racist/sexist/xenophobic/etc you also have the social idea of how it is very human to gather up as a community to shame and confront the bully. Confronting mean bullies with bullying tactics especially as a group is a very natural thing to do.

But social media has made weaponizing it all the more easy. It's anonymous, easily accessed and can be done while your fatass is parked in front of a computer. You can throw up arguments via retweets or googling articles or astroturfing your research. You can hide in the anonymity of other groups on Facebook or Twitter etc. And if there's more of you, shouting and drowning out and shaming into oblivion people with your loud internet voice is shockingly easy to do. It's happened with hapless individuals like Justine Sacco... or the girl who made a funny face at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and it can happen to other targets as well.

The target though... has to be a known person... not some anonymous internet user like some channer or (Russian) troll but someone who has the audacity to use their real life, or has an established online persona, or a public figure or group. The leftist Twitter mob can then swarm that target... bombard them for misspeaking across social media platforms, go @ newsmedia, law enforcement, advertisers etc etc etc and get hashtags trending to increase the social media outrage.

So now you have the combination of leftist politics and its domination in politics and newsmedia and the public sector (and with how craven the private sector is) and corporations, the relabeling of counter-left individuals as being "Nazis" or Alt Right because their beliefs are synonymous with human oppression and misery and social media acting as a loudspeaker and massive enabler and lo and behold, it can act as a modern day witch hunt and has time and time again. They will find you and they will shut you down if they can.

 

[Lanmandragon]

How exactly would you make it so that votes are by the guys who are most likely to have “matured”?

I mean being old doesn’t make you mature or smart or wise, you can be an insane commie decades after it momentarily fell

Say, what’s fascistic about the Starship Troopers way of getting votes, government service with military being the quickest way

Positive income/property and kids basically ensure they've got a stake in the future of the nation.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Amber Heard Faces Prison If Found Guilty of Falsifying Evidence Against Depp

Amber Heard could go to jail if it is proven that the actress falsified evidence to support her claims that Johnny Depp physically abused her.

www.cbr.com

So it turns out Amber could get thot patrolled into jail and miss out on her next role to the Aquaman sequel.

 

[Cherico]

Amber Heard Faces Prison If Found Guilty of Falsifying Evidence Against Depp

Amber Heard could go to jail if it is proven that the actress falsified evidence to support her claims that Johnny Depp physically abused her.

www.cbr.com

So it turns out Amber could get thot patrolled into jail and miss out on her next role to the Aquaman sequel.

The women who falsly accused Kavanauge didn't get a hour of jail time or any conquences, if a woman can lie about a supreme court justice while under oath to congress what makes you think Amber will serve a hour of jail time for some one that is far less powerful?

 

[Arch Dornan]

The women who falsly accused Kavanauge didn't get a hour of jail time or any conquences, if a woman can lie about a supreme court justice while under oath to congress what makes you think Amber will serve a hour of jail time for some one that is far less powerful?

Negative publicity?

Plus facing against Johnny Depp?

 

[gral]

Amber Heard Faces Prison If Found Guilty of Falsifying Evidence Against Depp

Amber Heard could go to jail if it is proven that the actress falsified evidence to support her claims that Johnny Depp physically abused her.

www.cbr.com

So it turns out Amber could get thot patrolled into jail and miss out on her next role to the Aquaman sequel.

She might lose the role anyway; I'm hearing that there's already some pressure to drop her. She has committed the biggest sin possible after all - being caught.

 

[PsihoKekec]

The women who falsly accused Kavanauge didn't get a hour of jail time or any conquences, if a woman can lie about a supreme court justice while under oath to congress what makes you think Amber will serve a hour of jail time for some one that is far less powerful?

Depp is one the right people, Kavanaugh isn't.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Depp is one the right people, Kavanaugh isn't.

Right people? Unfortunately he’s a man, even if he has evidence against her, the Far Left population will take her side over his every single time

At most, he won’t be married to her and get to keep his stuff