Merkels Operation Walküre - Discussion

[ATP]

Japan - finally something plausible.

Manchukuo and Korea could be made partially independent states,and on Taiwan locals really supported Japan,so it could remain part of it.
When soviets finally nuke germany and take over Europe,that alliance /and USA/ could be only powers capable of stopping their advance.

P.S Poland had very good relations with Japan,they helped us in Europe,and we helped them crack soviet codes.If author do not made polish politicians idiots as stupid as Melker,it could be used to made peace with germany.

 

[Tank23]

The problem with Poland is that its government is very nationalistic.If the population of Germany in 1944 did not exist, Merkel could make a deal that Poland would be accepted, but she cannot since it would be to hand over land with Germans and also one of the reasons that there is no attempted coup by the generals is because of the war and she who has made a deal with them, who has to fulfill.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Welp, from the look of things on the story-only thread, every preexisting chapter from AH is now here. Here's to entirely new chapters in the future.

 

[ATP]

The problem with Poland is that its government is very nationalistic.If the population of Germany in 1944 did not exist, Merkel could make a deal that Poland would be accepted, but she cannot since it would be to hand over land with Germans and also one of the reasons that there is no attempted coup by the generals is because of the war and she who has made a deal with them, who has to fulfill.

Nope.You mistaken poles from 1944 with germans.Who really were mostly racists/bavarian was ok,most other catholics,too/

Poland from 1926 to 1939 was military dictatorship,but Goverment in exile was made from 4 major parties :
1.Agricultural.They had their own underground army,100.000 strong,premier Mikolajczyk was one of them,and their major ambition was to take land from polish aristocrats and gave it to polish peasants.
In OTL they try made deal with Stalin and get massacred after 1947.They would made deal now with germans,as long as they do not forbade them from taking aristocrats lands.

2.Nationalists - their army was 70.000 strong,and their agents in germany captured many useful info for Allies.They were pro business/except big/ ,and very practical - from 1942 they do not attacked germans unprovoked and even made local cease-fire against commies,becouse they saw that germans arleady lost and fighting them is wasting polish lives.
They do not try made deal with Stalin,becouse they knew that he betray anybody.
But - they would made deal with normal germans.
They were polish nationalistsnot germans,,which means,that they do not cared about race,only about culture.According to them,people who are part of polish culture could be black or indians and be as good poles as any others.

3.Socialists - their army joined Home Army,and they made deal with Stalin just like africulturals.And get massacred,too.
They would made deal with germans,too.As long as they could destroy big business and made state factories.

4.Christians - weakest of all,tried made deal with soviets and get massacred.They would made deal with germans,too.

About germans from 1944 - they murdered poles on polish streets from 1939 to 1944,burned 1000 polish villages with its inhabitants including children,steal polish proprierty and behaved like stupid genocidal cunts.Of course,poles hated them - but exactly the same feelings have all other europeans.

Only good thing - germans must stop pretending that crimes was made by some mystical nazis.In 1944 everybody knew,that there was no nazis,only germans.And they could see it with their own eyes.

P.S Back to topic - germans could deliver Eurofighters to Japan,but could not destroy Baku and soviets that way ? Bullshit.
Merkel is either idiot,or STASI agent trying to save soviets.And dooming germany in process,becouse now soviets about 1970 would nuke german military and take Europe.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Vielen Dank, Tyr. After so long, you've given us a completely new chapter. This year's off to a good start.

 

[Starsall]

Hurah, new chapters in the future. I’m waiting so long, thank you so much.

 

[ATP]

Asian chapter are at least partially plausible.Althought if somebody belive,that both hindu and muslim agree to one secular state,it is rather funny.Not mention,that author wrote about persecuted hindu or muslim,but not christian.Which are killed by both sides.

China - author made Chiang agree to lost part of China,but polish politicians who in OTL agreed to lost our territory to soviets are FDR useful idiots here.Interesting why only polish politicans and Merkel could be stupid.

And again - german could deliver Tigers to China,but could not destroy Baku? REALLY ?
Only plausible explanation is that Merkel is either idiot or STASI agent still working for KGB.

About SS - it was european army in 1944,and from 38 dyvisions only 12 was made from germans.All european nations except us served there.Althought ,when french,dutch,belgian,and scandinavian were elites,belarussian,baltic and russian was average,
ukrainian good only for genociding our cyvilians,and italian was italian.

So - what with those european forces,now ? there was even small british unit.And german still hold Channel islands - where local police rounded all jews for germans.Something whch polish police in occupied Poland never did.

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

At first, I already posted it several times, but the popularity of Adolf and the NSDAP was very low in 1944. He would have never got any majority in elections (and indeed even the 1933 election did not give him the majority).

As for Poland, the Polish politicians of that time were very, well, nationalistic and overconfident. Marcel Reich-Ranicky once said, the Poles were faithful to invade Germany if war was starting in 1939! Marcel Reich-Ranicky, was a Polish born Jew, who became a critic of German literature after the war in Germany ("This book is bad, bad, bad!"). So thinking they are still overconfident now seems realistic.

As for Stalin, well, the Germans can't afford a two front war. They need resources. So knocking ONE of the enemy out FAST is just a necessity. Merkel would like to kill off Stalin, but that was simply not possible. Of course, she doesn't trust him as far as she can throw him. But that's Realpolitik. Oh, and they needed Baku intact. Either they could get a deal with Stalin or conquer Baku in the next offensives. If Stalin didn't have Baku any longer, his cards would have been much, much, MUCH worse.

Also in some cases Polish police did round up Jews and in some few cases even shot them, IIRC.

Stay tuned for more updates. Also I will post the Bismarck TL here soon as well.

 

[Starsall]

To be fair, she can nuke Moscow and Stalin with few nukes N.A.T.O left after the Isot. But that is my radical thinking and can be hurt Germany in long term (U.K might never peace negotiation after seeing what happens to Russia).

Also hope Trump never be chancellor, he might actually hit the big red button. (This part is a joke)

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

With this history Merkel (or any other sane German politician) won't use NBC weapons, and especially nuclear ones, until being attacked by them before or immediately before such an attack. A warning would come in such a case before. So nuking Moscow was out of question.

 

[ATP]

At first, I already posted it several times, but the popularity of Adolf and the NSDAP was very low in 1944. He would have never got any majority in elections (and indeed even the 1933 election did not give him the majority).

As for Poland, the Polish politicians of that time were very, well, nationalistic and overconfident. Marcel Reich-Ranicky once said, the Poles were faithful to invade Germany if war was starting in 1939! Marcel Reich-Ranicky, was a Polish born Jew, who became a critic of German literature after the war in Germany ("This book is bad, bad, bad!"). So thinking they are still overconfident now seems realistic.

As for Stalin, well, the Germans can't afford a two front war. They need resources. So knocking ONE of the enemy out FAST is just a necessity. Merkel would like to kill off Stalin, but that was simply not possible. Of course, she doesn't trust him as far as she can throw him. But that's Realpolitik. Oh, and they needed Baku intact. Either they could get a deal with Stalin or conquer Baku in the next offensives. If Stalin didn't have Baku any longer, his cards would have been much, much, MUCH worse.

Also in some cases Polish police did round up Jews and in some few cases even shot them, IIRC.

Stay tuned for more updates. Also I will post the Bismarck TL here soon as well.

Werll,not true.German lost faith in their god after he do not made miracle on his birthday in 1945,not before.
Marcel Reich was soviet spy,and he was taking about idiots ruling Poland in 1939,becouse they win putch in 1926..Which in 1944 do not mattered politically.

Mattered agrarian,socialists and christians who tried made deal with soviets and payed for that with their blood,and nationalists,who knew that soviets would backstab them,but made tactical truce with local german commanders.

And if germans kill Stalin soviet commanders would start kill each other to become next stalin,destroing Baku means that soviet tanks and planes would not work which mean quick victory -
AND GIVING SOVIETS FARMERS LANDS MEAN THAT THEY ALL WOULD FIGHT FOR GERMANS.
Jurgen Thorwald book "Illusion" is why big cry "if we only treated soviets humanly,they would win war for us"
German officers which inspired that book are still there - so Merkel must knew that,too.

If she knew,that she could quickly destroy soviets in 3 different ways and do not did so - she must act as STASI agent.
Of course,in this scenario soviets about 1965 would nuke german military and take Europe.

P.S yes,polish police sometimes rounded jews.Sometimes - french,dutch,and english police did it ALWAYS. And they do not need german police help.

And only in occupied Poland for hiding jews GERMANS murdered those who did it and their entire families.
When they found rifle - even entire arsenal - families was spared or send to GERMAN concentracion camps.Which,in theory they could survive.GERMAN Bullet to the head ? nobody could survive that.

 

[Tank23]

Germany does not have the resources to defeat all its enemies and they therefore did not destroy Baku, because they were occupying the oil.

the Germans by 1944 have lost all goodwill with the Polish and Russian citizens, perhaps that is the reason that the Polish leaders in Poland did not accept the deal with the new government of Germany. Germany gave Polish lands to Lithuania and with any treaty Poland would be a German puppet, and they don't trust Germany to do its part.

the Poles have been victims of the Germans and they want justice and revenge and that is the main reason why they do not accept the peace dictated by Germany.

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

Germany does not have the resources to defeat all its enemies and they therefore did not destroy Baku, because they were occupying the oil.

the Germans by 1944 have lost all goodwill with the Polish and Russian citizens, perhaps that is the reason that the Polish leaders in Poland did not accept the deal with the new government of Germany. Germany gave Polish lands to Lithuania and with any treaty Poland would be a German puppet, and they don't trust Germany to do its part.

the Poles have been victims of the Germans and they want justice and revenge and that is the main reason why they do not accept the peace dictated by Germany.

That is one reason. The other is, that the Polish-German relations in the interwar era were mostly stressed. Even before Hitler got the power, the poles tried, at least twice to my knowledge, to convince the French to attack Germany. At one time, when a new Polish consul should be sent to Königsberg, the German ambassador got that answer, why. War would come too soon to do so.

There were strong voices in Poland in that time to conquer everything up to the Elbe river as that had been Polish in medievel times. Well, in their eyes. Anyway, even shortly before the attack on Poland they fired on civilian aircraft to and from East Prussia with flak.

Ironically the relations between Poland and Germany were the best under Hitler. Even the question of Danzig was on the way to be solved, when suddenly the Polish government relied again on France and said no to everything.

Here the Polish government is caught partly in similar thoughts like FDR. They fear, any peace treaty with Germany could let them lose support in the population. They fear to become a German puppet and they don't get anything further, even not Königsberg or Upper Silesia. At the moment the German proposals are very generous. That may not be the case in the future.

 

[ATP]

Germany does not have the resources to defeat all its enemies and they therefore did not destroy Baku, because they were occupying the oil.

the Germans by 1944 have lost all goodwill with the Polish and Russian citizens, perhaps that is the reason that the Polish leaders in Poland did not accept the deal with the new government of Germany. Germany gave Polish lands to Lithuania and with any treaty Poland would be a German puppet, and they don't trust Germany to do its part.

the Poles have been victims of the Germans and they want justice and revenge and that is the main reason why they do not accept the peace dictated by Germany.

Nope.Germans could easily destroy soviets in 3 different ways :
1.Killing Stalin - soviet cyvil war.
2.Destroy Baku - soviet must fight on horses against tanks.
3.Gave land to peasants - they would fight for germany,then.

If germans do not did so,it means that Merkel wanted soviet state with Stalin.Only plausible explanation - she is STASI.
Which means,that between 1965 and 1975 soviets would take over germany and entire Europe.

Sad thing - germanwank which in reality is sovietwank.


As about Poland - yes,everybody hated germans,and for good reason - 1000 villages burned with its inhabitants is only one of them - but we hated soviets,too.And for good reasons,too.

Yet,most of our politicians/agrarian,socialist,christian/ still tried made deal with them,becouse they were pragmatists.Nationalist do not tried only becouse they knew,that soviets would backstab us.
So,all that parties would take even bad deal with Merkel,becouse they were pragmatists.

Our leaders from 1933-39 period was idiots and would fight,but in 1944 nobody backed them.So,their intentions are unimportant here.

 

[Tank23]

Nope.Germans could easily destroy soviets in 3 different ways :
1.Killing Stalin - soviet cyvil war.
2.Destroy Baku - soviet must fight on horses against tanks.
3.Gave land to peasants - they would fight for germany,then.

1 Killing Stalin would not change much since the Soviets were fighting in a war of survival and they all knew what would happen if they lost the war, even if they killed Stalin after the first week the Russians would continue fighting.

2 The Germans did not destroy Baku since if they did not manage to win peace with Stalin they would have to capture it because they would run out of fuel.

3 When the Germans entered the Ukraine and Russia they were received as liberators but they lost all goodwill as they began to kill them and the Soviets used that as propaganda against the Germans.

The only Russians Germany can get as allies are the prisoners of war it has and the ones who joined them at the red-bearded start.

I don't think that because Merkel came to power in Germany you will see Polish citizens joining the German army.

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

The first update since a long time is online. Have fun! Again thanks to Darksoul for editing.

 

[ATP]

1 Killing Stalin would not change much since the Soviets were fighting in a war of survival and they all knew what would happen if they lost the war, even if they killed Stalin after the first week the Russians would continue fighting.

2 The Germans did not destroy Baku since if they did not manage to win peace with Stalin they would have to capture it because they would run out of fuel.

3 When the Germans entered the Ukraine and Russia they were received as liberators but they lost all goodwill as they began to kill them and the Soviets used that as propaganda against the Germans.

The only Russians Germany can get as allies are the prisoners of war it has and the ones who joined them at the red-bearded start.

I don't think that because Merkel came to power in Germany you will see Polish citizens joining the German army.

1.Killing Stalin change everything,becouse there was no clear succesion law.And soviets arleady knew,that new germans are not old genociders.So - All soviet bigschots would start killing each other.

2.Germans would have problem with fuel,but soviets would fight on horses.Quick win for germany.

3.Even in OTL about million soviets fought for Hitler.With him dead and promised land for anybody who join german army ? germans would not even need fight on frontlines.

4.Poland was not soviet hell,when every enemy was welcomed as liberator.We have democracy and 4 important parties with smart leaders - so,people do not flock to germans,becouse polish alternative was much better.

I assure you,then if Merkel comed to Poland in 1950 with her army,almost everybody would be happy to join germans.

We are not better or worst then sovets - but we have good state,so we were loyal to it,and soviets have hellhole,so they waited for anybody to come and destroy soviets.

 

[Tank23]

For me it seems that the nationalist government changed sides very quickly, it was better to wait until after the war. The problem is that Germany will not be able to give much and when the war ends, China could consider whether to continue the alliance with America or make a new one with Germany.

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

China is in a problematic situation. It faces war with Japan, a de facto cease fire in a civil war and in an alliance with America, an ally, who will betray them later. Or would have in the TL, if the Event didn't had taken place. And Germany had been an ally before the war. Chiang Wei-Kuo had been soldier in the Wehrmacht.

Here still as Fahnenjunker. He was Gebirgsjäger at first and later tank commander. Promoted to Leutnant, he nearly took part in the attack on Poland 1939.

But the Kuomintang was no monolithic block, as there were others, who saw in the Japanese the real danger. And others had great ties to the USA. So Chiang Kai-Shek's point of view is not necessarily the one of all members of the party.

The times for China are interesting, with Manchukuo and a Japanese puppet, China under Mao and Kuomintang China, not to speak about the foreign powers meddling within the country, again. USA, Britain, USSR, Japan, Germany,... All of them are doing everything only in the interest of China, yes, indeed! (That's sarcasm, for all, who don't see it).

If it runs bad, you can have a fight everyone against everyone. Chiang against a wannabe putschist against Mao against Manchukuo... And Murphy LOVES China.👹

Oh, if he's changing the positions quickly, then as Chiang doesn't trust the USA AND sees the Commies as THE real danger. He knows, the USA would be not reliable in a civil war and Japan and Germany give him an alternative.

 

[ATP]

China is in a problematic situation. It faces war with Japan, a de facto cease fire in a civil war and in an alliance with America, an ally, who will betray them later. Or would have in the TL, if the Event didn't had taken place. And Germany had been an ally before the war. Chiang Wei-Kuo had been soldier in the Wehrmacht.

Here still as Fahnenjunker. He was Gebirgsjäger at first and later tank commander. Promoted to Leutnant, he nearly took part in the attack on Poland 1939.

But the Kuomintang was no monolithic block, as there were others, who saw in the Japanese the real danger. And others had great ties to the USA. So Chiang Kai-Shek's point of view is not necessarily the one of all members of the party.

The times for China are interesting, with Manchukuo and a Japanese puppet, China under Mao and Kuomintang China, not to speak about the foreign powers meddling within the country, again. USA, Britain, USSR, Japan, Germany,... All of them are doing everything only in the interest of China, yes, indeed! (That's sarcasm, for all, who don't see it).

If it runs bad, you can have a fight everyone against everyone. Chiang against a wannabe putschist against Mao against Manchukuo... And Murphy LOVES China.👹

Oh, if he's changing the positions quickly, then as Chiang doesn't trust the USA AND sees the Commies as THE real danger. He knows, the USA would be not reliable in a civil war and Japan and Germany give him an alternative.

He is acting logically,becouse he really saw commies as bigger danger.And rightly so.

Problem is - you made him acting logically,but in the same time made USA,germans and Polish goverment idiots.

USA,becouse their military made zerg rush against germans,and their politicians ,while most of them was soviet useful idiots,behave now as mindless automatons with "kill germans" order.Which would be possible only if Stalin ordered them so.

germans,becouse they knew that Stalin or other soviet leader would start WW3 with nuking germany ,but still made peace with them,althought there were 3 ways to easily destroy them.Known to germans.
Only explanation is that Merkel is STASI and do that to help soviets take over Europe.

Poles,becouse most of our politicians still try to made deal with spviets after they take away half of our country,and nationalists do not joined becouse they knew,that soviets would break any agreement.
And now they refused to talk even when Merkel finally agreed to pay for german crimes,which she is refusing now.
Becouse USA told sur current leaders could do so,but politicians from 1944 had working brains.Until author of this story removed them.

Interesting,why so many politicians was made idiots here.To made old prussian dream about alliance with Russia true? sorry,Russia was murdered by soviets.You could not have deal with corpse.And soviets would break any agreement made with germans and backstab them,becouse they are,well,soviets.