Merkels Operation Walküre - Discussion
- Thread starter Tyr Anazasi
- Start date
I think,that in OTL he was murdered in soviet prison after capitulation,so now he should live.
by the way,My grandmother relative from Home Army with his unit was send to the same Gulag where german soldiers worked -
and as a result stopped hating germans, becouse polish and german soldiers helped each other there.
Tyr Anazasi
Well-known member
As I mentioned before, the Allies had the point, at which they could decide to make peace. The chose for war. And as I mentioned before, it is very hard to correct such a move. Heck, even if they did so at first, it would be a problem for them, as they had forced them to tell their electors, why this was now a better action. In one moment it was "unconditional surrender" and in the next "okay, we make peace talks".
That having said, the personalities of the leading politicians are a problem as well. Churchill was in some points a gambler, Roosevelt hated Germany and Stalin wanted to use an opportunity. IMO Roosevelt would be the very last to accept peace talks, not, if he doesn't see any possibility to win. His personality and his point of view on Germany make it harder to change the longer the war goes. That and the fact not having lost the first war in the history of the USA. Churchill, if really free to act, would have acted otherwise. But as a gambler he can live with it, as it would mean winning the greatest jackpot in history.
Stalin was very cautious. Thus he would make peace, once there is a danger to his rule. OTL he sent whole armies into doom and would do so here, if he could get a possibility to win. OTOH he would make peace, if he sees, continuing the war would endanger his rule.
None of the leaders of ww2 really cared about the population or the soldiers.
That having said, the personalities of the leading politicians are a problem as well. Churchill was in some points a gambler, Roosevelt hated Germany and Stalin wanted to use an opportunity. IMO Roosevelt would be the very last to accept peace talks, not, if he doesn't see any possibility to win. His personality and his point of view on Germany make it harder to change the longer the war goes. That and the fact not having lost the first war in the history of the USA. Churchill, if really free to act, would have acted otherwise. But as a gambler he can live with it, as it would mean winning the greatest jackpot in history.
Stalin was very cautious. Thus he would make peace, once there is a danger to his rule. OTL he sent whole armies into doom and would do so here, if he could get a possibility to win. OTOH he would make peace, if he sees, continuing the war would endanger his rule.
None of the leaders of ww2 really cared about the population or the soldiers.
Stalin was cautious, but beliver - that is why he planned to start WW3 in OTL.He would do the same again here.Becouse he really belived in "liberating " entire Earth.
Churchill in OTL did what USA told him,so he would again do that.
FDR was feeling bad,so more important were was his advisors would say to him.Considering that such advisors was Stalin creatures, they would urge him to fight only if Stalin want so.
And your basic mistake is gathering germans 44,germans 2015 and germans from USA 2015 in one country.
1,they would need food - which mean,that they must steal food from occupied countries.
2 - american from 2015 are loyal to USA,not Germany.
3.Germans from 44 are genociders at worst,and best - like Stauffenberg - had not problem with german Ju 87 destroing polish city Wieluń in 1939 when there were no polis troops there.They targeted hospital with red cross on the roof,too.
He "only" want use Poles as slaves on their own land without killing them.
Well,there were people like mystic Teresa Neumann,but she farsee germany destroyed for their sins in WW3.
And till beginning of 1945 they were loyal to Hitler - otherwise soldiers facing allies would just surrender.Just like Italian troops in 1943.
So, we have starving country with 3 mixed population,and only germans from 2015 are loyal to Merkel.SS in OTL supported Hitler till the end - and they have 38 dyvisions.Wermacht,except higher commanders, was loyal,too - otherwise putch would succed in OTL.
If story was real,we would have cyvil war in Germany arleady.And starving any occupied nations.
There is another reason why story is impossible - Merkel.
She had control over Europe and Germany,owned Poland by her pet Tusk,and did what?
welcomed rapefugees to Germany,and lost her polish colony by taking Tusk from Poland.He is traitor,but capable - if he stayed in Poland,we would still belong to Merkel.
And the same Merkel who lost Poland and turned Germany into rapeparadise in RL,now face Stalin,win and take over Europe ? REALLY?
I like cumberstomp as any other healthy male,but if somebody need germanwank,then he need use Helmut Kohl or Adenauer as leader,not failure like Merkel.
She had control over Europe and Germany,owned Poland by her pet Tusk,and did what?
welcomed rapefugees to Germany,and lost her polish colony by taking Tusk from Poland.He is traitor,but capable - if he stayed in Poland,we would still belong to Merkel.
And the same Merkel who lost Poland and turned Germany into rapeparadise in RL,now face Stalin,win and take over Europe ? REALLY?
I like cumberstomp as any other healthy male,but if somebody need germanwank,then he need use Helmut Kohl or Adenauer as leader,not failure like Merkel.
Another funny chapters.
Scene from Auschwitz - only case when Panther were used to liberate concentration camp was during Warsaw Uprising in 1944 - we captured two and used them to liberate 300 jews from Gęsiówka concentration camp.
Why Merkel care about Stalin? his slaves hated him and waited for anyone to come and save them.
His army take oil from one place - Baku - and trucks/75%/,trains/50%/ ,and radios for tanks and planes from Lend- Lease.
Destroy Baku,and soviet army would be on foot again.Destroy ports and Lend-Lease could not come anymore.
About letters -
In 1944 everybody in Poland hated germans - becouse they genocided us.And thanks to my grandma i knew,that all germans expect catholics treated us like subhumans.
So,when love is possible,german father from 1944 would agree only if he was catholic.And why he decide to remain in germany? even polish nationalist was not racists,they hated germans,not german cyvilians.
Last think - soviet prisoners worked for germans wery hard,when my granma and other poles did everything possible to work less.
Whem american come to Bavaria,they must catch soviet citizen,becouse they hide in forest to not be send to Stalin.So,nobody from soviets would fight against germans willingly.
Major problem - failure like Merkel would not face people like FDR or Churchill,when she could not face rapefugees in RL.
Scene from Auschwitz - only case when Panther were used to liberate concentration camp was during Warsaw Uprising in 1944 - we captured two and used them to liberate 300 jews from Gęsiówka concentration camp.
Why Merkel care about Stalin? his slaves hated him and waited for anyone to come and save them.
His army take oil from one place - Baku - and trucks/75%/,trains/50%/ ,and radios for tanks and planes from Lend- Lease.
Destroy Baku,and soviet army would be on foot again.Destroy ports and Lend-Lease could not come anymore.
About letters -
In 1944 everybody in Poland hated germans - becouse they genocided us.And thanks to my grandma i knew,that all germans expect catholics treated us like subhumans.
So,when love is possible,german father from 1944 would agree only if he was catholic.And why he decide to remain in germany? even polish nationalist was not racists,they hated germans,not german cyvilians.
Last think - soviet prisoners worked for germans wery hard,when my granma and other poles did everything possible to work less.
Whem american come to Bavaria,they must catch soviet citizen,becouse they hide in forest to not be send to Stalin.So,nobody from soviets would fight against germans willingly.
Major problem - failure like Merkel would not face people like FDR or Churchill,when she could not face rapefugees in RL.
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Interesting chapters,but you made mistakes again.
1.Patton would go ballistic,but his friend was already half-politician,so he would rather wait.
2.FDR was arleady dying,and he did what his soviet friendly advisors said.So,till he die,USA would do what Stalin want.If soviet made peace,USA would fight only if Stalin say so.
3.In your story half of population is from 1944.Of course,they would vote for NSDAP.Why not? becouse they genocidied jews and poles? average german knew and do not care,just like Schaufenberg who saw polish city of Wieluń destroyed by Luftwaffe in 1939,and do not cared.
At least part of them helped in those genocidies.
And if Germany decide to keep polish lands,like Poznań,there would be another reason to vote for NSDAP.They do nothing wrong,if germans could keep what they steal,after all.
4.Soviet soldiers fought not becouse of love for Stalin,but thanks to NKWD squads who fired in their back.Remove them,and they would mass surrender,just like in 1941.
Promise land for villagers and abolishment of kołchoz,and all consprict from villages would fight for you.
It is really easy and cheap thing to do -
Merkel would let Stalin rule only if she is idiotic enough to not see that.But german officers from 1944 knew that - they even hired Jurgen Thorwald to wrote book"The Illusion" after WW2,showing how soviets fought for germany even when germans genocided them.
All Merkel need now is to recognize Vlasow as head of russian state,gave soviet land from kołchoz,and entire soviet union fall in year.
Unless she is still as stupid as OTL Merkel,which partially destroyed germany by her rapefugees.
5.If you want germany wank,you must remove Merkel or gave her better brain.She is so stupid,that when she made Poland her vassal state using Tusk,she take him to UE and replaced with some idiot.Which idiot lost election,and now Poland is ruled by good socialist Kaczyński,who do not led germans rule Poland anymore.
If she keep Tusk in Poland,we would be still german colony.
1.Patton would go ballistic,but his friend was already half-politician,so he would rather wait.
2.FDR was arleady dying,and he did what his soviet friendly advisors said.So,till he die,USA would do what Stalin want.If soviet made peace,USA would fight only if Stalin say so.
3.In your story half of population is from 1944.Of course,they would vote for NSDAP.Why not? becouse they genocidied jews and poles? average german knew and do not care,just like Schaufenberg who saw polish city of Wieluń destroyed by Luftwaffe in 1939,and do not cared.
At least part of them helped in those genocidies.
And if Germany decide to keep polish lands,like Poznań,there would be another reason to vote for NSDAP.They do nothing wrong,if germans could keep what they steal,after all.
4.Soviet soldiers fought not becouse of love for Stalin,but thanks to NKWD squads who fired in their back.Remove them,and they would mass surrender,just like in 1941.
Promise land for villagers and abolishment of kołchoz,and all consprict from villages would fight for you.
It is really easy and cheap thing to do -
Merkel would let Stalin rule only if she is idiotic enough to not see that.But german officers from 1944 knew that - they even hired Jurgen Thorwald to wrote book"The Illusion" after WW2,showing how soviets fought for germany even when germans genocided them.
All Merkel need now is to recognize Vlasow as head of russian state,gave soviet land from kołchoz,and entire soviet union fall in year.
Unless she is still as stupid as OTL Merkel,which partially destroyed germany by her rapefugees.
5.If you want germany wank,you must remove Merkel or gave her better brain.She is so stupid,that when she made Poland her vassal state using Tusk,she take him to UE and replaced with some idiot.Which idiot lost election,and now Poland is ruled by good socialist Kaczyński,who do not led germans rule Poland anymore.
If she keep Tusk in Poland,we would be still german colony.
Now,that stop being funny,and become pitiful.
Americans using their fleet in suicide charge as if they were soviet wave tactic using troops ? REALLY ? Even if FDR ordered something like that,his admirals would ignore crazy orders.
And President Trump used as comic relief...it is just pitiful.I undarstandt why germans hate him, but he avoided war with Iran ,faced China, and helped Middle Europe liberate themselves from germans.
He also is american,so he would never help germans against his state,Just like all other americans delivered to germany.
I like wanks,truly,but not so pitiful.
Americans using their fleet in suicide charge as if they were soviet wave tactic using troops ? REALLY ? Even if FDR ordered something like that,his admirals would ignore crazy orders.
And President Trump used as comic relief...it is just pitiful.I undarstandt why germans hate him, but he avoided war with Iran ,faced China, and helped Middle Europe liberate themselves from germans.
He also is american,so he would never help germans against his state,Just like all other americans delivered to germany.
I like wanks,truly,but not so pitiful.
One more thing - Baku rafineries.70% of soviet oil come from them,destroy it and soviets are defeated.
If Germany could destroyed shipyards in USA,then they could destroy Baku,too.
Unless Merkel is too stupid to think about that - or want keep Stalin as soviet ruler.Merkel is stupid,but some of her generals must told her so.So,she want keep Stalin as soviet ruler.
If Germany could destroyed shipyards in USA,then they could destroy Baku,too.
Unless Merkel is too stupid to think about that - or want keep Stalin as soviet ruler.Merkel is stupid,but some of her generals must told her so.So,she want keep Stalin as soviet ruler.
Hadrian.Caeser
New member
Was it President Trump or his grandfather in the story? As for all of them being loyal to the US government? That is very unlikely. The difference between the USA of 1944 and 2014 are astronomical. Maybe not as big as the German equivalent, but not thaaat far of. America was a different country back then.
As for Bundeskanzlerin Merkel being stupid? That is very strange claim. In fact, she is far more intelligent than most of the German population and knows more about physics than most as well. However, she is both old and a product of her time. Combined with all the other groups which have their own plans... There is no reason for her to know about the importance of specific resource refineries. If her advisors fail to mention them, then she needs new ones as fast as possible.
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That was...beyond silly.
1.Why made peace with soviets? if germans could destroy yards in USA,destroing Baku would be easy.And soviet people would kill communists on their own if they get land from kolhoz.
2.Why care about FDR? he was dying and doing what stalin useful idiots wanted.If he still want war,that means,that Stalin say so to his commie friends and he is following it.
3.Mikołajczyk as die-hard? that is stupid.He try to made deal with Stalin in OTL.Just like polish farmer,socialists and catholic parties.They were all purged after 1947,but they try to made deal instead of fighting suicidal fight.
Only nationalist do not try that,but that was becouse they knew that soviets always break their promises.
4.All polish parties from 1944 would take german offer.Becouse it was good - nobody would fvote for germany after german crimes made in Poland,and if german who helped genocide poles could not vote,then there practically there would be no adult german allowed to vote there.
5.Again Trump as village idiot,and Merkel as genius...if it is true,why USA are stronger and germany weaker after they ruled ?
You made silly story in which germany saved soviets to fight Poland.Typical german genius in action - soviets would wait 20 years and take over Europe after getting H bombs.
1.Why made peace with soviets? if germans could destroy yards in USA,destroing Baku would be easy.And soviet people would kill communists on their own if they get land from kolhoz.
2.Why care about FDR? he was dying and doing what stalin useful idiots wanted.If he still want war,that means,that Stalin say so to his commie friends and he is following it.
3.Mikołajczyk as die-hard? that is stupid.He try to made deal with Stalin in OTL.Just like polish farmer,socialists and catholic parties.They were all purged after 1947,but they try to made deal instead of fighting suicidal fight.
Only nationalist do not try that,but that was becouse they knew that soviets always break their promises.
4.All polish parties from 1944 would take german offer.Becouse it was good - nobody would fvote for germany after german crimes made in Poland,and if german who helped genocide poles could not vote,then there practically there would be no adult german allowed to vote there.
5.Again Trump as village idiot,and Merkel as genius...if it is true,why USA are stronger and germany weaker after they ruled ?
You made silly story in which germany saved soviets to fight Poland.Typical german genius in action - soviets would wait 20 years and take over Europe after getting H bombs.
Hadrian.Caeser
New member
What makes you think that America is stronger after President Trump? Their military might be a bit more powerful but most of that wouldn't matter in a modern war anyway. In fact, the position of the USA is less stable and united than it has been for years.
As for Trump being shown as an idiot? Yea, that wasn't necessary, but he wasn't the only one who was made fun of.
As for German genius saving the day? Mee, you need to make a lot of mistakes to loose in such a scenario. Even modern Greece could become a superpower if today's version went to the past like Germany did in this story. And Germany has far more advantages. Knowledge, Technology, education, infrastructure, industry and more importantly a HUGE POPULATION after both versions of Germany fused.
But I agree with your statement about the USSR. They should have been destroyed as fast as possible.
BenjaminBurch
New member
I was deeply disappointed when you were banned at AH.
Mostly agree.
1.Trump helped USA rather economically and not attacking Iran,which Clinton would certainly attack.
2.I do not care much about Trump,but if in one story he is showed as village idiot and real idiot Merkel as genius,it is simply pitiful.
3.You are right - technology from 2015 in 1944 would made almost any country ruler - well,baltic states or Monaco would be fucked.So,Merkel could continue to be idiot,and for 20 years it would not matter.
4.Indeed.Not only Merkel could destroy them easily,but when she let them live they would take technology,made some kind of NEP to help economy,and after 20-30 years they would simply nuke german military bases,and send army to take Europe.
That army would die anyway becouse of radiation, and many soviet cities taken in german retaliation - but Stalin murdered 20-60 millions of soviets in OTL,and soviets had no problems with such war till 1986.
After all,what is war which take ,let say 50 million of soviets,if it gave them Europe?
And now they knew,that if they do not attack,their empire would fall.
Now,that was funny.Only bad german nazi supporter showed here must be polish woman.Nice joke.
Ali superhero is kinda funny,too.Even i knew,that both Turks living in germany do not consider themselves germans,but turks.
But - it is of little importance.Canaris,who knew that destroing Baku or giving kolchoz land to soviet farmers would destroy Stalin and easily win war,instead of making it real is.....wasting hos time on destroing one small Mossad group.Pitiful.
Dude was genius,and author made him idiot.I do not care about making Merkel idiot,becouse she really is one,but why made Canaris,too?
He must be well aware of fact,that after making new NEP and gathering enough nukes,soviets would simply burn german military bases and take over Europe.Even if it cost them 10% or more of their population.
Becouse soviets genocided their own people not becouse they were sadists,but becouse they belived in NEW MAN. which would be created after taking over entire Earth.killing current people was never problem for them - they were no NEW PEOPLE, after all.
P.S Canaris for entire war have contact with polish Home Army,which gave his messyges to England.So,there is simple not possible that polish goverment decided to help USA in their suicide charge.Unless current polish leaders,they have working brains.
Ali superhero is kinda funny,too.Even i knew,that both Turks living in germany do not consider themselves germans,but turks.
But - it is of little importance.Canaris,who knew that destroing Baku or giving kolchoz land to soviet farmers would destroy Stalin and easily win war,instead of making it real is.....wasting hos time on destroing one small Mossad group.Pitiful.
Dude was genius,and author made him idiot.I do not care about making Merkel idiot,becouse she really is one,but why made Canaris,too?
He must be well aware of fact,that after making new NEP and gathering enough nukes,soviets would simply burn german military bases and take over Europe.Even if it cost them 10% or more of their population.
Becouse soviets genocided their own people not becouse they were sadists,but becouse they belived in NEW MAN. which would be created after taking over entire Earth.killing current people was never problem for them - they were no NEW PEOPLE, after all.
P.S Canaris for entire war have contact with polish Home Army,which gave his messyges to England.So,there is simple not possible that polish goverment decided to help USA in their suicide charge.Unless current polish leaders,they have working brains.
BWAHAHAHAHA. Stalin caring about Mother Russia ? since when ? he killed more russians then Hitler.He is plaing good commie now,and try to sell germans idea then his new NEP is nothing more then preparing conqest of Europe.
But Merkel is stupid enough to belive him.Well,she is idiot.But - Canaris and others are not.If they are not idiots,they would kill Stalin/for example - accident in air/ ,soviet state would collapse into 10 states of mini-stalins fighting each other,and they could go there after a year and conqer soviets till Ural.
Unless author made them idiots,too.Then soviets would made NEP,gather resources - and about 1970 realise soviet plan from 1985 - drop 600+ tactical nukes on military targets,send army to occupy rest.Those army would die from radiation,and german manage to burn some soviet cities ? so what?
COMMUNISM WAS ALWAYS ABOUT CREATING NEW MEN IN NEW WORLD.So,all old men could die in process of making it.
But,at least,german GOT is better then canon.But...schoolboys could made it better,too.
But Merkel is stupid enough to belive him.Well,she is idiot.But - Canaris and others are not.If they are not idiots,they would kill Stalin/for example - accident in air/ ,soviet state would collapse into 10 states of mini-stalins fighting each other,and they could go there after a year and conqer soviets till Ural.
Unless author made them idiots,too.Then soviets would made NEP,gather resources - and about 1970 realise soviet plan from 1985 - drop 600+ tactical nukes on military targets,send army to occupy rest.Those army would die from radiation,and german manage to burn some soviet cities ? so what?
COMMUNISM WAS ALWAYS ABOUT CREATING NEW MEN IN NEW WORLD.So,all old men could die in process of making it.
But,at least,german GOT is better then canon.But...schoolboys could made it better,too.
Everybody knew,that Merkel probably is STASI agent.But i read lately,that she meet before 1976 Robert Havemann,commie disident keep in house arrest by STASI.That mean,that she must be their agent.
If so,Merkel could spare Stalin even if she knew that destroing Baku or giving land to soviets would destroy him easily,becouse her russian handlers say so.Becouse STASI was just german part of KGB,which mean that Merkel is still working for them.
All to ensure that soviets would take over Europe about 1970.Well,that explain almost everything.Except one thing - why she take her minion Tusk from Poland? if he still ruled over us,Poland would still be german colony.
If so,Merkel could spare Stalin even if she knew that destroing Baku or giving land to soviets would destroy him easily,becouse her russian handlers say so.Becouse STASI was just german part of KGB,which mean that Merkel is still working for them.
All to ensure that soviets would take over Europe about 1970.Well,that explain almost everything.Except one thing - why she take her minion Tusk from Poland? if he still ruled over us,Poland would still be german colony.
Hadrian.Caeser
New member
That... is very unlikely 😂. That's as likely as her having children in her basement to suck out their youth.
Seriously, she might have made a lot of mistakes in her career, but that doesn't make her some kind of STASI member. Not all politically minded people from the DDR were loyal to the SED
Seriously, she might have made a lot of mistakes in her career, but that doesn't make her some kind of STASI member. Not all politically minded people from the DDR were loyal to the SED
She meet Robert Havemann,which was possible only if STASI agreed to do so.And when german press discovered that,she ordered them to be silent.
Fortunatelly,swiss journalists do not cared about that and made it public.With comment,that she meet him becouse STASI ordered her so.
And her politic about Putin suggest,that KGB must knew something bad about her.
Besides...better agent then idiot.Her behaviour could be undarstandt only if she was either STASI/KGB agent or idiot,and i prefer first version.