This is actually true.
Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes
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This is actually true.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Not really, US Army is not much more chaotic than other armed forces (and is actually less chaotic than most of them), the reason they do well in conventional warfare is due to superior logistics and overwhelming firepower.
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No, Spartan is very right.Not really, US Army is not much more chaotic than other armed forces (and is actually less chaotic than most of them), the reason they do well in conventional warfare is due to superior logistics and overwhelming firepower.
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Part of why we do so good is logistics. The ither is that we just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then do it again.
You know the saying the best laid plans last until forst contact with the enemy?
We improvise after that point.
No, I'm literally not kidding. Sure Logistics and Firepower play a huge role in our decisive edge , but not following the proper manuals at the proper time isn't just a thing we do. It's encouraged. Precisely because people knew our tactics and knew how to plan around them. The Iraq War actually made this worse.
For example. During an ambush on a Platoon in our company. Standard response is to break contact, rally, then call in reinforcements. Once you have a 3 to 1 advantage in firepower and numbers then you counter attack. Sound strategy, and they made sure that I as a Medic understood this. The problem? The enemy knew it too and would often disappear before we could drop the hammer on them. Arranging a counter attack could sometimes take half an hour. Completely unacceptable.
So on this particular occasion the Platoon leader made a gutsy call. And he got more than a little scrutiny for it. During the ambush he had one of his vehicles fein severe damage which forced the crew to abandon it near a house inside the kill zone. He had the rest of the Platoon circle around the house and take up positions. He kept the Platoon inside the kill box, effectively trapping them...but also keeping the insurgents committed to the attack and pinned in place.
The LT called in for reinforcements and vector them in to flank the enemy. Once everyone was in place his Troops attacked as did the two units flanking. Enemy got rolled up in minutes and they totally got caught off guard. But it worked. 4 soldiers got wounded but damn if the gamble didn't pay off.
Another situation. Consider route clearance missions when you find an IED. SOP was to pull back 100 meters, pull security and then call in EOD. Well, the insurgents caught on to that trick quickly enough to where they'd either plant a small IED as the decoy which would then lure in US troops to within range of the real IED. Or they'd use a fake ti fk the same. So then the SOP got updated to 150M, 200M, then conducted 5s and 25s (scan your immediate sectors for booby traps), ect, ect. We were told to be unpredictable. So one group got creative and started circling suspected IEDs before finding a spot to post up and set up security. Sometimes it was 100Ms our, sometimes 200. A few rare times he got as close to 50M out so long as he was standing what he perceived as up wind of the IED explosion. It was completely at his discretion and he made it a point to be unpredictable. So yeah the post is a bit funny and hyperbolic. But it's a very real phenomenon that we in the Army took a sort of odd pride in.
Not just low level, but across the board.
Yeah, we learn that Improvising and going off Doctrine is what is needed when Doctrine doesn't work. Which is most of the time in contact. Besides the standard Bounding and fix an flank, the doctrine allows for so many different things one can do.
In Intel we learn to be creative in what we think in our analysis we have to plan for the enemy to expect us to do Doctrine, but be ready for the BLUFOR to improvise
In Intel we learn to be creative in what we think in our analysis we have to plan for the enemy to expect us to do Doctrine, but be ready for the BLUFOR to improvise
No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
If you plan with that in mind, as the US military does, you will be more successful
There is a reason the NCO corps of the US Military is so renowned.
They are the ones that take advantage of such scenarios.
So do PLs and all, but the NCOs are somewhat specialised in this
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
If you read the history from the perspective of American enemies (WWII, Korean war, Vietnam), your enemies had generally poor opinion of your infantry but dreaded your artillery and air power.
Germans in particular were horrified at how responsive US artillery was and how much steel it could sling downrange, their experiences of Eastern front paling in comparison. Of course that view was coloured by poor performance of the green US troops in 1942, but even later in war US forces still greatly relied on pounding the living shit out of their enemies, rather than fancy out of the box manoeuvres (which is sound thinking in 9 out of 10 cases), even if they grew considerably in skill and experience (or maybe because of it). So those memes are just that - memes, USA is and was rightly feared because it had a doctrine - blast them to pieces (just like everyone else) and had both industrial might and logistic capabilities to carry out their operations according to that doctrine in a greater scale than anyone else. Fancy out of the box stuff is just a dessert after the main dish fills the gullet.
Germans in particular were horrified at how responsive US artillery was and how much steel it could sling downrange, their experiences of Eastern front paling in comparison. Of course that view was coloured by poor performance of the green US troops in 1942, but even later in war US forces still greatly relied on pounding the living shit out of their enemies, rather than fancy out of the box manoeuvres (which is sound thinking in 9 out of 10 cases), even if they grew considerably in skill and experience (or maybe because of it). So those memes are just that - memes, USA is and was rightly feared because it had a doctrine - blast them to pieces (just like everyone else) and had both industrial might and logistic capabilities to carry out their operations according to that doctrine in a greater scale than anyone else. Fancy out of the box stuff is just a dessert after the main dish fills the gullet.
The US is able to rely on various things to succeed.
I would like to see these perspectives.
Artillery is only useful if you have no counter artillery and good observers. Infantry will ALWAYS win the wars, the the US infantry, well the military in general are well known for their ability to quickly adapt, and form new doctrine out of said improvisation.
One can take a look at movies like Blak Hawk down. The plan and doctrine went to shit, so the Rangers and Delta improvised to make the situation work.
The Outpost, bad ambush and any plans went to shit so they improvised.
Damn near every thing the US Army for instance is make the best of what they are given. Spartans story? One of thousands of similar stories.
Doctrine is constantly changing based on those improvised experiences. Doctrine for fighting Zeros during WW2 was after an improvised move made by Thatch. Tank doctrine changed after contact with the enemy. Improvised armor on tanks because they needed what they could.
Chaos is how we win. Large scale operations are even more chaotic the small scale because when those plans fail you have to trust the units can make up for the chaos with doing what they can do kill the enemy and take control
I generally find the negative opinions of people's who's asses we solidly kicked to be a bit suspect. So they should be taken with a grain of salt.
That isn't to say there aren't problems. But generally the US Military is far more competent and capable than our enemies would have you believe.
Edit: unless you're Erwin Rommel. Then you can talk all the shit you want. There is a reason we respect the Desert Fox.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
Artillery shells are cheaper than the lives of our soldiers. Germans were just jelly of our logistics. look at what they had at the time. good in quality but not in enough quantity to make a difference.
stephen the barbarian
Well-known member
Duke Nukem
Hail to the king baby
if it's a product that these people want to buy. Fuck it, sell the product.
But I'm not eating that fake chicken bullshit.
