Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

And this sort of shit is why people aren't wrong to say Christianity is a religion that lied about, stole from, and defaced other previous religions to try to prop itself up in the early days, and was so insecure about itself it had to remove a lot of previous history and previous religious art to feel 'safe'.

It's frankly pathetic and shows the pettiness and arrogance and 'anything not Christian is oppressing us' mindset of many early Christian churches, and more than a few modern ones.

You understand nothing. For Christians, this is like the people of Eastern Europe tearing down statues of Lenin and Stalin after the fall of the USSR. Or people tearing down Sadam's statue in the 2000's.

The pagan gods were the angels who were appointed by God to guide the nations. But they accepted worship as gods and Fell, breeding with humans and creating the Giants who were destroyed in the Great Flood. But they lingered still. What you see as destruction is a celebration of triumph, of salvation over false gods and false promises that enslaved and imprisoned.
 
He literally drew a comic where Marx was a badass hero fighting a dystopian regime led by Hayek and...Ayn Rand.

And I've already agreed that he isn't one of the deranged ones. But a semi-sane Marxist is still a Marxist.

This one?

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Like who, Socrates? Aristotle?

Dude... seriously?
 
The claim that Christians "took" Christmas from the Roman pagan festival of Saturnalia is a popular misconception that oversimplifies history. Here's a breakdown of the issue:

What Was Saturnalia?

• Saturnalia was a Roman festival held in honor of the god Saturn. It typically took place from December 17th to December 23rd.

• It involved feasting, gift-giving, role reversals (masters serving slaves), and general revelry. It was a major holiday in Roman society and celebrated during the winter solstice period.


Christmas and Saturnalia: The Differences

Date Mismatch: Saturnalia ended on December 23rd, while Christmas is celebrated on December 25th. Though both are winter celebrations, they are not directly aligned.

Tone and Themes: Saturnalia was a raucous festival of reversal and hedonism. Early Christmas celebrations, by contrast, were solemn and focused on the nativity of Jesus.

Origins of Christmas: The Christian Church decided on December 25th as the date for Christmas based on theological reasons:

• Some early Christians believed Jesus was conceived on March 25th (the Feast of the Annunciation). Adding nine months brings his birth to December 25th.

• December 25th was also associated with the Roman feast of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun"), which celebrated the winter solstice. However, early Christians often repurposed existing cultural symbols to reflect their faith, rather than "stealing" outright.

The Reality of Christian Adaptation

• Early Christians lived in a predominantly pagan society and would have been familiar with Saturnalia and other solstice festivals. While it's true that some elements of Saturnalia (like gift-giving or feasting) might have influenced Christmas traditions, there's no evidence that Christians deliberately "appropriated" Saturnalia.

• Instead, the choice of December 25th likely reflects a combination of theological considerations and practical adaptation. Celebrating Christmas during an already festive season made it easier for converts to embrace the holiday.

Modern Misconceptions

• The claim that Christmas is "stolen" from Saturnalia is often repeated without context or historical nuance. It likely gained popularity due to:

• 19th- and 20th-century secular criticisms of Christianity.

• Efforts to tie Christmas traditions to broader pagan roots, which are more complex than a single holiday like Saturnalia.

Conclusion

While there are superficial similarities between Christmas and Saturnalia (seasonal timing, gift-giving), the two celebrations are fundamentally different in origin and meaning. Christmas was not "stolen" from Saturnalia but rather developed independently while adapting to the cultural environment of the Roman world. The truth lies in a nuanced interplay of history, theology, and cultural adaptation.
 
They also took pagan holidays and used them for their own purposes Easter and Christmas for example.

Ostera and Saturnalia.
Saturnalia was instituted in the year 274AD. It went from December 17th to the 23rd. It's not that Christmas is based on it, it's that it was a political reaction against the Christians of the time celebrating Christmas.

Edit: Not even gunna bother rebutting Ostera. Every time someone makes the claim about Christians taking over pagan holidays, it's just annoying.
 
ChatGPT:

The idea that Christians "took" Easter from a pagan festival, particularly one dedicated to a goddess named Ostera (or Eostre), is a widespread claim, but it is not supported by strong historical evidence. Here's a breakdown of the situation:

Origins of the Claim

• The notion of a pagan festival dedicated to Eostre comes primarily from the writings of the 8th-century monk Bede the Venerable. In his work De Temporum Ratione (The Reckoning of Time), Bede mentioned that the Anglo-Saxons held feasts in honor of the goddess Eostre during the spring month, which later lent its name to "Easter."

• However, outside of Bede's account, there is no direct evidence of Eostre as a widely worshipped goddess or of a specific festival dedicated to her.

Easter's Christian Roots

• Easter, as a Christian celebration, is rooted in the Jewish Passover (Pesach). The timing of Easter is calculated based on the Jewish lunar calendar, falling on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox.

• Early Christians observed the Resurrection of Christ in conjunction with Passover, as the crucifixion and resurrection occurred during that time.

• The name "Easter" is predominantly used in English and Germanic languages (e.g., "Ostern" in German). In most other languages, the term for Easter derives from the Hebrew word Pesach, such as Pascha (Greek and Latin), Pâques (French), and Pascua (Spanish), emphasizing its roots in the Jewish tradition rather than any pagan festival.

The Association with Spring and Fertility Symbols

• Modern associations of Easter with eggs, rabbits, and fertility come from later cultural traditions, not from Christian theology. These symbols may have pre-Christian origins tied to springtime fertility rites, but they were adopted into Easter celebrations much later and were never central to the Christian observance.

• The idea that Christians "borrowed" these elements to co-opt a pagan festival overlooks the theological focus of Easter, which is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Conclusion

While there may be superficial similarities between Easter and some springtime pagan traditions (e.g., themes of renewal and fertility), there is no substantial evidence that Christians "took" Easter from a pagan festival. The primary inspiration and timing for Easter come from the Jewish Passover and the Christian belief in the Resurrection, not a widespread pagan festival to Eostre or Ostera.

The claim persists largely because of its appeal in discussions about cultural syncretism, but its basis in historical fact is tenuous at best.
 
The claim that Christians "took" Christmas from the Roman pagan festival of Saturnalia is a popular misconception that oversimplifies history. Here's a breakdown of the issue:

What Was Saturnalia?

• Saturnalia was a Roman festival held in honor of the god Saturn. It typically took place from December 17th to December 23rd.

• It involved feasting, gift-giving, role reversals (masters serving slaves), and general revelry. It was a major holiday in Roman society and celebrated during the winter solstice period.


Christmas and Saturnalia: The Differences

Date Mismatch: Saturnalia ended on December 23rd, while Christmas is celebrated on December 25th. Though both are winter celebrations, they are not directly aligned.

Tone and Themes: Saturnalia was a raucous festival of reversal and hedonism. Early Christmas celebrations, by contrast, were solemn and focused on the nativity of Jesus.

Origins of Christmas: The Christian Church decided on December 25th as the date for Christmas based on theological reasons:

• Some early Christians believed Jesus was conceived on March 25th (the Feast of the Annunciation). Adding nine months brings his birth to December 25th.

• December 25th was also associated with the Roman feast of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun"), which celebrated the winter solstice. However, early Christians often repurposed existing cultural symbols to reflect their faith, rather than "stealing" outright.

The Reality of Christian Adaptation

• Early Christians lived in a predominantly pagan society and would have been familiar with Saturnalia and other solstice festivals. While it's true that some elements of Saturnalia (like gift-giving or feasting) might have influenced Christmas traditions, there's no evidence that Christians deliberately "appropriated" Saturnalia.

• Instead, the choice of December 25th likely reflects a combination of theological considerations and practical adaptation. Celebrating Christmas during an already festive season made it easier for converts to embrace the holiday.

Modern Misconceptions

• The claim that Christmas is "stolen" from Saturnalia is often repeated without context or historical nuance. It likely gained popularity due to:

• 19th- and 20th-century secular criticisms of Christianity.

• Efforts to tie Christmas traditions to broader pagan roots, which are more complex than a single holiday like Saturnalia.

Conclusion

While there are superficial similarities between Christmas and Saturnalia (seasonal timing, gift-giving), the two celebrations are fundamentally different in origin and meaning. Christmas was not "stolen" from Saturnalia but rather developed independently while adapting to the cultural environment of the Roman world. The truth lies in a nuanced interplay of history, theology, and cultural adaptation.
You forget it wasn't just Saturnalia that was amalgamated into Christmas, it was also the Yule traditions of the Norse/Germanics.

And we even know Jesus wasn't born in December, based on known and recorded star patterns referenced in Biblical materials that were cross checked with modern astronomy. Jesus was more likely born around when Easter is, than around Christmas.
 
he pagan gods were the angels who were appointed by God to guide the nations. But they accepted worship as gods and Fell, breeding with humans and creating the Giants who were destroyed in the Great Flood. But they lingered still. What you see as destruction is a celebration of triumph, of salvation over false gods and false promises that enslaved and imprisoned.
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This one?
Yeah.
 
In reality Chritmas grew out of old traditions set for generations by this point.
For instance Slavic traditions are seen in Orthodox Christmas, and in the Scandinavian countries viking traditions were kept.
Same with a lot of Roman ones for most of Europe.
Christmas has borrowed overtime various elements of pagan traditions due to assimilation.
 
You forget it wasn't just Saturnalia that was amalgamated into Christmas, it was also the Yule traditions of the Norse/Germanics.

And we even know Jesus wasn't born in December, based on known and recorded star patterns referenced in Biblical materials that were cross checked with modern astronomy. Jesus was more likely born around when Easter is, than around Christmas.
The timing of Christmas is based on early Christian calculations derived from esoteric Jewish prophetic tradition. Specifically the tradition that Prophets are born and die on the same day. Trying to fit Jesus into that tradition somehow ended up settling on Jesus being conceived and dying on the same day, thus placing the time of his birth at 9 months after his death. It had nothing to do with either Saturnalia or Yule, both of whose dates were changed to match that of Christmas, not the other way around, by pagans trying to compete with/suppress the celebration of Christmas.

We know there were extensive apologia in the Bible and other early Christian writings trying to force Jesus' life into the preexisting Jewish prophetic and messianic traditions. It's one of the major points of historical evidence that he was a real person with a real life, as a writers should have no problem giving a fictional character whatever background they want, instead of spending so much time trying to defend a less ideal background and life history. Early Christians cared much more about this than what pagans were doing.
 
The timing of Christmas is based on early Christian calculations derived from esoteric Jewish prophetic tradition. Specifically the tradition that Prophets are born and die on the same day. Trying to fit Jesus into that tradition somehow ended up settling on Jesus being conceived and dying on the same day, thus placing the time of his birth at 9 months after his death. It had nothing to do with either Saturnalia or Yule, both of whose dates were changed to match that of Christmas, not the other way around, by pagans trying to compete with/suppress the celebration of Christmas.

We know there were extensive apologia in the Bible and other early Christian writings trying to force Jesus' life into the preexisting Jewish prophetic and messianic traditions. It's one of the major points of historical evidence that he was a real person with a real life, as a writers should have no problem giving a fictional character whatever background they want, instead of spending so much time trying to defend a less ideal background and life history. Early Christians cared much more about this than what pagans were doing.
Yule traditions pre-dated Christ's birth, unlike Saturnalia.
 
or feasting
Feasting on a high holy day being indicative of "stealing" has to be like, the WORST argument for borrowing. Humans LOVE feasting, we will use ANY excuse to throw a feast. It would be more indacative of borrowing traditions from a high holy day if popular observance in both involved FASTING.

And look, I'm not just shitting you. Let's consider MODERN American Holidays for a moment. The two most iconic AMERICAN Holidays are Independence Day and Thanksgiving. I don't think I need to point to Thanksgiving as being an obvious feast day... I mean... it's pretty explicitly one. But we even put together feasts for 4th of July... think about it, what else would you call a day where one of the primary activities is gathering together and cooking over an open fire and eating meats with copious amounts of bread, vegetables, fruits, and beer in celebration?

Yeah, humans love to feast. A high holy day without a feast is more notable than one WITH feasting. That's just how humans be.
 
No, it's a system of government that naturally evolved in certain regions. All attempts to impose it as a philosophy have met with failure.
The system of government is based on the philosophical thought that enables it.

Democracy is a philosophy because it's built on a core set of beliefs about how society should function. It champions the idea that power comes from the people, advocating for individual liberty, equality, and the right to participate in shaping one's own society. More than just voting procedures and. System of government, democracy values open dialogue, compromise, and respecting diverse viewpoints to reach solutions that benefit everyone. It's a philosophy that prioritizes the individual's worth and their active role in a just society.

This philosophy is what the system of government is based on. It often falls short, but that's the philosophical core of democracy.
 
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