Mass Effect Mass Effect general thread

[Captain X]

ME1 is best Mass Effect.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

ME1 is best Mass Effect.

In terms of story, absolutely. Gameplay is a bit clunky but that doesn't make it unplayable.

I think in terms of characters, Mass Effect 2 has it beaten, but it's not by as much you'd first think. ME1 is the first appearance of Garrus and Wrex, after all.

 

[Captain X]

I also like the Liara from ME1 a lot better than the one that was retconned for ME2.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I also like the Liara from ME1 a lot better than the one that was retconned for ME2.

Fuck yeah, she was socially incompetent and sweet, but could make you explode with biotics. Perfect waifu material.

That aside, it was a bit jarring. Going from wide eyed archaeologist to ruthless information broker is quite a leap...

 

[Stargazer]

I'm pretty disappointed that the LE isn't coming to Switch. I would love to have Mass Effect on a handheld. There's not a lot of reason otherwise for me to get it as a PC player.

I never cared for the Miranda, but the double standard in this case is a bit irritating. Thane was literally designed to be Mr Sexy and pander to the game's female playerbase, and that's totally fine and they won't change anything about him, but Miranda being designed as Ms Sexy is a serious issue and we have to go back in and adjust the camera angles because pandering suddenly becomes not ok when men are the target.

Did Thane have gratuitous camera angles on his sexual characteristics during non- romantic conversations? That's what's being changed about Miranda. They aren't altering her design, and they aren't making her sex scene any less sexy. Miranda was used to pander in a much more blatant and egregious way than Thane, so it's a faulty comparison. I for one always found that pandering to be unnecessary and annoying, so I'm glad they're changing it a bit for the LE.

I also like the Liara from ME1 a lot better than the one that was retconned for ME2.

I always liked how Liara changed to have some more fire to her. When Shepard's gone for two years it makes sense that some of the characters would change.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Did Thane have gratuitous camera angles on his sexual characteristics during non- romantic conversations? That's what's being changed about Miranda. They aren't altering her design, and they aren't making her sex scene any less sexy. Miranda was used to pander in a much more blatant and egregious way than Thane, so it's a faulty comparison. I for one always found that pandering to be unnecessary and annoying, so I'm glad they're changing it a bit for the LE.

I agree with this entirely. Eliminating the gratuitous butt shots *in scenes where sexuality is inappropriate* is an entirely reasonable change. They're not changing her character model or toning down the actual sex scenes.

Thane does not have any equivalent, "I'm opening up and trusting you with extremely personal information about my private life, ASS SHOT!" moments.

I always liked how Liara changed to have some more fire to her. When Shepard's gone for two years it makes sense that some of the characters would change.

I think it makes a lot of sense that Liara was forced to grow up really, really fast in those two years. With her mother dead, Shepard dead, and the Systems Alliance making it clear to the non-human members of Shepard's team that they were unwelcome, she was basically alone in a hostile galaxy and she stood up to the challenge.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Did Thane have gratuitous camera angles on his sexual characteristics during non- romantic conversations? That's what's being changed about Miranda. They aren't altering her design, and they aren't making her sex scene any less sexy. Miranda was used to pander in a much more blatant and egregious way than Thane, so it's a faulty comparison. I for one always found that pandering to be unnecessary and annoying, so I'm glad they're changing it a bit for the LE.

No, Thane didn't have 1:1 identical camera angles, but as the article explains, that's because he was designed to pander to women in a different way, not that he was designed to pander in a less blatant one.

As for being annoying and unnecessary, that's a matter of taste, clearly other people feel otherwise, so why should your view take precedence, particularly since the dev team that actually made the game thought it wasn't just fanservice (though it was also fanservice):

BioWare marketer David Silverman explained in an interview with VG24/7 in 2011 that the character’s sex appeal- often shown through camera angles focusing on her buttocks clad in a skin-tight suit- were part of the character.

“The fact is, some characters are defined by their attractiveness, such as a woman who is genetically engineered to be perfect,” Silverman explained. “Camera angles help tell the story and portray key aspects of each character – in Miranda’s case, her curves and sexuality. We had similar shots of Jacob.”

And I think there is some merit to that. Miranda complains several times about how she's seen as just a bunch of genetic engineering, that her successes are credited to her DNA and not her, etc. I think having the camera get in on that and overemphasis her body over her personality is a reasonable way of conveying that to the player and tempting them to fall into that same line of thinking.

I always liked how Liara changed to have some more fire to her. When Shepard's gone for two years it makes sense that some of the characters would change.

"More fire" is one thing. "Became ruthless killer and expert in a field you have no expertise or experience in" is another.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Mass Effect 1 would make a great movie.

Mass Effect 2 would make a great television series.

Mass Effect 3 would make a great multiplayer shooter MOBA with strategic and RPG elements. Heavy on all content and concepts except a good plot.

Mass Effect Andromeda would make a great new comic book series by Marvel... one of those heavily marketed ones that's cancelled after six issues due to lack of readership and many memes being posted over the horrible characters and artwork.

 

[LindyAF]

I think in terms of characters, Mass Effect 2 has it beaten, but it's not by as much you'd first think. ME1 is the first appearance of Garrus and Wrex, after all.

Eh, ME2 had more characters, particularly squadmates, who were just unlikeable. I think I was annoyed every time I had to talk to Jacob, Miranda, or Jack. Even the weaker characters in ME1 I never really minded talking to. On the other hand, ME2 had some fantastic characters as well, like Mordin and Legion.

On Liara, eh, it was a bit jarring for me to, but pretty much all the ME1 gang has a pretty dramatic shift from 1 to 2. Wrex goes from basically a great Merc to a chieftan leading the reunification of his homeworld, Garrus goes from hotheaded cop to vigilante mastermind, Ashley or Kaidan becomes a Spectre.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Eh, ME2 had more characters, particularly squadmates, who were just unlikeable. I think I was annoyed every time I had to talk to Jacob, Miranda, or Jack. Even the weaker characters in ME1 I never really minded talking to. On the other hand, ME2 had some fantastic characters as well, like Mordin and Legion.

I never found Jacob annoying, but then I never really found him interesting or anything either, he was just there. Miranda at least had an interesting loyalty mission, Jacob was just dull.

I'm with you on hating Jack, though I think Samara is the worst in my book.

On Liara, eh, it was a bit jarring for me to, but pretty much all the ME1 gang has a pretty dramatic shift from 1 to 2. Wrex goes from basically a great Merc to a chieftan leading the reunification of his homeworld, Garrus goes from hotheaded cop to vigilante mastermind, Ashley or Kaidan becomes a Spectre.

I think Wrex makes sense, he was once a chieftain in his own right and the events of ME1 inspired him to return to that role, nothing iffy there. Garrus sorta makes sense, though him jumping from "it's better to do the right thing than the legal thing" to "Declare war on all crime" is....extreme.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

And I think there is some merit to that. Miranda complains several times about how she's seen as just a bunch of genetic engineering, that her successes are credited to her DNA and not her, etc. I think having the camera get in on that and overemphasis her body over her personality is a reasonable way of conveying that to the player and tempting them to fall into that same line of thinking.

I was actually quite surprised to find all that after conversing with her enough. Miranda has had it pretty shit and as a result has breathtaking self-esteem issues.

 

[LindyAF]

I never found Jacob annoying, but then I never really found him interesting or anything either, he was just there. Miranda at least had an interesting loyalty mission, Jacob was just dull.

I'm with you on hating Jack, though I think Samara is the worst in my book.

Jacob wasn't so much annoying himself as it was annoying to talk to him, because my first time playing I wanted to get through all the characters dialogue, but Jacob was just so boring. Miranda was interesting but she's just so unpleasant the first few times you talk to her. And with most of the crew.

Yeah, Samara was awful too. It'd be tempting to switch her out with Morinth, except Morinth is even worse.

 

[Captain X]

The two year gap of Shepard being dead is frankly just a lazy crutch used to justify basically whatever the writers wanted for their reboot.

 

[Laskar]

Eh, ME2 had more characters, particularly squadmates, who were just unlikeable. I think I was annoyed every time I had to talk to Jacob, Miranda, or Jack. Even the weaker characters in ME1 I never really minded talking to. On the other hand, ME2 had some fantastic characters as well, like Mordin and Legion.

That's a function of the fact that ME2 had more squadmates and more freedom to work with. In the original game, the characters' backstories were interesting until the game tried to explain why they were on the Normandy, at which point it degenerated into an excuse plot. I think the only characters who had a compelling reason to be hunting Saren were Liara and maybe Tali. Mass Effect 2 had Shepard recruiting those characters from their natural environment and then going on special missions to gain their loyalty, so those characters had more room to grow and show themselves. Most of the time, it worked great.

When it came to Jacob though, it was just so much turd polishing. There was nothing interesting there to work with.

 

[LindyAF]

I think the only characters who had a compelling reason to be hunting Saren were Liara and maybe Tali.

Eh, I think that's kinda underselling things. Ashley's colony was wiped out by Geth, and IIRC Garrus had been working the Saren case until it got nixed by his boss, it fit with his character for him to want to see that to completion.

When it comes to the reasoning, ME1 did have the advantage of you being a state actor too, both on behalf of the Citadel and the Alliance. Like for instance Kaidan didn't need an explanation to be with you because you were his commanding officer. Whereas in ME2 you're running around working for something designated a terrorist organization, so it makes sense that people need a bit more of a reason to join you.

 

[Stargazer]

No, Thane didn't have 1:1 identical camera angles, but as the article explains, that's because he was designed to pander to women in a different way, not that he was designed to pander in a less blatant one.

As for being annoying and unnecessary, that's a matter of taste, clearly other people feel otherwise, so why should your view take precedence, particularly since the dev team that actually made the game thought it wasn't just fanservice (though it was also fanservice):



And I think there is some merit to that. Miranda complains several times about how she's seen as just a bunch of genetic engineering, that her successes are credited to her DNA and not her, etc. I think having the camera get in on that and overemphasis her body over her personality is a reasonable way of conveying that to the player and tempting them to fall into that same line of thinking.




"More fire" is one thing. "Became ruthless killer and expert in a field you have no expertise or experience in" is another.

The thing is, I don't want to see Miranda exclusively that way. I'm not the kind of person to define women exclusively by their attractiveness. If the point of the camera angles was to push players towards that way of thinking, then it was unwelcome. Again, I'm not shedding a tear that the LE will no longer be so blatantly pushing my view in that direction. Should my view take precedence? Not particularly, but it's my view and I reserve the right to be glad about the change.

 

[Captain X]

She isn't presented that way, either. The issue here is that this aspect of her is being censored essentially out of an ideological prudishness. Are games to be made now to appease the sensibilities of whoever is the most easily offended? Am I to no longer be allowed to have steak because you are a vegetarian? Or can we each decide what to have for dinner ourselves?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

She isn't presented that way, either. The issue here is that this aspect of her is being censored essentially out of an ideological prudishness.

They're not censoring an aspect of her, they're *changing the camera angle* to not focus on her butt during a specific conversation. She's still hyper sexy when she's actually intending to be sexy.

 

[Captain X]

That is still an aspect of her, and the point I made still stands.

 

[Stargazer]

She isn't presented that way, either. The issue here is that this aspect of her is being censored essentially out of an ideological prudishness. Are games to be made now to appease the sensibilities of whoever is the most easily offended? Am I to no longer be allowed to have steak because you are a vegetarian? Or can we each decide what to have for dinner ourselves?

To use your analogy - if the game is like a meal catered to a whole group, I'm vegan, and the meal served is vegetarian? I'm glad that it is. Sorry you aren't.