ISOT MAGA to the 70s.

[Bear Ribs]

They could try destroying these weapons or evacuating these weapons en masse, no? But then again, the US did neither of these things with its Afghan weapons.

They could but, again, these bases are deep in Russian territory. Imagine if, instead, Russian bases popped up in, say, 1970s Chicago and how hard it would be to try to evacuate or destroy everything before the US managed to respond, even with a serious tech advantage.

 

[Zyobot]

Definitely not a priority here, but I wonder what downtimers would make of That ’70s Show? Admittedly, it’s set more in the late Seventies and makes for better entertainment than education, but since they’re off to a way different start ITTL, I’m curious as to what they think of how it rolled out IOTL. (Yes, including how it’s retroactively viewed and depicted by uptimers.)

 

[DarthOne]

Oddly, the US gets suddenly a lot more liberal vs. the 1970s, but no where near all the way. Racism is dead, 100%. Gays, who just started their protests en masse in 1969, suddenly have a ton of relatively hugely accepting people, in redneck places, but at the same time, the gays from uptime look at them like "WTF? why are you so degenerate, stop." It stops the AIDS epidemic easily.

The big thing is that everyone is going to be pissed about is the 'coming' Roe v Wade case, and the need to stop it ASAP. Also, gun rights is huge in MAGA country, while not a 1970s republican thing.

A big question is what do they do about reallocation of House seats? The census just happened, so it could be 10 years before seats are reallocated.

Temporary poverty is also fairly large, as a large number of people just lost their life savings, as it was stored in computers. This might get solved, might not.

An important thing to do is figure out which important figures are suddenly lost forever, as a side thing, both ones from the 1970s from the 2020.

Also, most important: with military bases, we suddenly invaded the USSR. That's a big fucking problem. If it doesn't trigger war, it does mean the USSR gets a ton of advanced tech too, so no ROFL stomp.

I think you're overestimating things a bit here. Also, grudging acceptance that has been worn away rapidly in the past few years of LGBT ideological nonsense being pushed on people might easily be enough to strangle the gay rights movement in its crib, Or at least make sure that the more deviant and degenerate types out there get shut down HARD.

 

[bintananth]

Definitely not a priority here, but I wonder what downtimers would make of That ’70s Show? Admittedly, it’s set more in the late Seventies and makes for better entertainment than education, but since they’re off to a way different start ITTL, I’m curious as to what they think of how it rolled out IOTL. (Yes, including how it’s retroactively viewed and depicted by uptimers.)

Talked to my mom.

She hated it. When the 70's started she was eleven. When the 70's ended: four daughters and one son (me) with one more daughter on the way.

 

[Zyobot]

Talked to my mom.

She hated it. When the 70's started she was eleven. When the 70's ended: four daughters and one son (me) with one more daughter on the way.

The decade, the show, or both?

 

[bintananth]

The decade, the show, or both?

I was born in '78 and do remember the 80's because I was there for all of it.

 

[Zyobot]

I was born in '78 and do remember the 80's because I was there for all of it.

Sure, but I was asking about which of them your mom hates. Did she hate the series, the decade, or both?

 

[bintananth]

Sure, but I was asking about which of them your mom hates. Did she hate the series, the decade, or both?

I'd have to ask her and she'll probably give me an answer I'm not expecting because she's not just mom or grandma. She's great-grandma and not yet retirement age.

 

[Zyobot]

I'd have to ask her and she'll probably give me an answer I'm not expecting because she's not just mom or grandma. She's great-grandma and not yet retirement age.

Okay, then. If it ever comes up, let us know what she thinks.

Anyhow, another question that's been on my mind is what elections will look like here? For one, I think @Bear Ribs is right to note that the MAGA base will pick uptimer candidates brought along for the ride, though that doesn't tell me much about who will run for president next (or all of the other races on the ballot). Moreover, there's still some downtimers left over post-ISOT, and considering how 1970 and 2020 sensibilities and pop culture don't match up well, odds are they'll feel "drowned out" by the uptimer majority, which is a recipe for alienation and resentment.

 

[WolfBear]

By county, but I couldn't find a county by county electoral map for 1970.

Anyway, how do you think this impacts the Vietnam war?

Support for this could decrease since the 2020 people will know that ultimately Vietnam turned out OK and even helped save Cambodians from the Khmer Rouge. FWIW, I would expect there to be no US sanctions on Vietnam for its 1979 invasion of Cambodia in this TL or only minor sanctions.

 

[WolfBear]

Equal Protection?

BTW, I would expect immigration restrictionism to be extremely popular in 1970. MAGA could tell everyone how the 1965 Immigration Act failed to achieve its purpose of preserving a white-majority US and how instead an alternative solution should be devised. Getting rid of birthright citizenship might also be a very popular idea during this time. Prominent Democrat Harry Reid was in favor of this as late as the early 1990s, after all.

In 1970, only 7% of Americans wanted more immigration while around 35% wanted less immigration.

FWIW, I would also expect support for busing in this TL to be significantly reduced. Busing was a hot issue in the 1970s. 2020 conservatives obviously would not want ghetto black kids bussed to their schools, after all. They had no problems with black kids who lived in their neighborhoods going to their schools but the same was not true for black kids from more distant, often ghetto neighborhoods.

BTW, the 1970 US was a veritable Whiteopia compared to the 2020 US:

 

[bintananth]

Umm ... that 1970 map kinda coincides with the parts of the US which tried to secede over a century before because the local powers that were thought people like my wife and our daughters were property instead of people.

 

[WolfBear]

Umm ... that 1970 map kinda coincides with the parts of the US which tried to secede over a century before because the local powers that were thought people like my wife and our daughters were property instead of people.

Yeah, outside of the cities, there were few blacks outside of the Southern US in 1970.

 

[bintananth]

I thought that most of the truly insane crap happened in highly liberal areas, like San Francisco, Portland and New York, and that MAGAFAGS would be relatively less degenerate by comparison.

If you want insanely expensive "just because" American bullshit the Alaska-class "large cruisers" - with 9x12" - actually outgunned every battleship that didn't use 16" superheavy or 18.1".

 

[WolfBear]

Yeah, outside of the cities, there were few blacks outside of the Southern US in 1970.

This map is for 1990 data, but the results are almost certainly very similar to those of 1970:

 

[WolfBear]

The migration of African-Americans over the last 120 years has clearly been to the North and West of the US:

 

[ATP]

After witnessing the "free and fair elections for the most popular president everz" a ROB decides to have some fun by ISOTing every single county and miscellaneous other electoral region on the same level, like, say US military bases, that supported Trump back in time 50 years, from November 4th 2020 to November 4th of 1970.

The missing landmass will all be replaced not with the 1970s, but with the geographical equivalent as it existed prior to any human colonization of the Americas, with all resources there naturally being at the same levels as they were back a few thousand years ago.

How does this affect both timelines?

You created 3 scenarios,not 2 :
1.2020 democrats with 20.000BC lands - they would fall.World is fucked,Kgbstan genocide Ukraine,Poland,Baltic states and later others.China take Taiwan.

2.1970 democrats with 2020 republicans - USA rule,soviets fall earlier,Vietnam is saved/Ethiopia,too/ China remain poor country.

3.Democrats from 1970 go into 20.000 BC - USA rule world.

 

[Agent23]

You created 3 scenarios,not 2 :
1.2020 democrats with 20.000BC lands - they would fall.World is fucked,Kgbstan genocide Ukraine,Poland,Baltic states and later others.China take Taiwan.

Um, the USA would still have its SSBN based nukes, carrier groups and foreign-deployed nukes and foreign military bases in 2020.
Take a look at Abhorsen's post, it explains that they are not a county or other level separate electoral entity.
But they will be hard-pressed economically.

2.1970 democrats with 2020 republicans - USA rule,soviets fall earlier,Vietnam is saved/Ethiopia,too/ China remain poor country.

yeah, that was the timeline I found most entertaining.

3.Democrats from 1970 go into 20.000 BC - USA rule world.

That third scenario crossed my mind, but let us just say that ROB just poofs the 1970s stuff that is to be replaced with 2020 stuff away.

 

[Buba]

3.Democrats from 1970 go into 20.000 BC - USA rule world.

Actually those people do not rule over anything - they are dead inside a fortnight (most earlier). The grandchildren of a very few survivors - the most ruthless and blessed with access to weapons with ample ammunition - are stone age hunters and gatherers.

 

[Agent23]

Actually those people do not rule over anything - they are dead inside a fortnight (most earlier). The grandchildren of a very few survivors - the most ruthless and blessed with access to weapons with ample ammunition - are stone age hunters and gatherers.

Ice age?