Low Tier Alliance Vs The Covenant

Kevral

Active member
1. Helghan & Vekta (Killzone) + The Alliance & Browncoats (Firefly) + Colonial Marines/Earth (Aliens) + 12 Colonies + Cylons (nBSG) V's The Covenant

2. The Location is a neutral galaxy (All assets taken over eg shipyards, orbital infrastructure etc. Allies assets are all in a sphere 80LY wide. No Covenant facilities in that 80LY.

3. Victory Conditions- Covenat to kill the humans like OTL. The Alliance to survive for 5 years as a functioning society at around the same level as when they entered.

4. Battle Prerequisites- The Covenant know nothing about their opponents apart from being human. The Allies have 10 years prep time, tech sharing and have the general structure of the Covenant government and society. The Covenant believe (in some cases there is) a holy relic on all primary worlds the Allies occupy so wont go straight for glassing.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
What are we talking about in terms of "allied assets" as far as the number of planets go? Outside of Aliens, it's my understanding that the rest of the factions listed have maybe two or three dozen or so planets to thier name, tops, and probably half that number of heavily populated,industrialized ones.

That matters a lot because of that 5 year time limit, if there's too many planets to glass, the covenant might auto lose regardless of thier superior military power. There's not a great chance of that, the covenant stand a good chance of recovering nav data and maps after the first engagement, because none of the factions here have "scrub the nav data" as thier SOP, and given they all come from culture where they all know where everyone's stuff is anyway, it might not occur to them in time.

I'm going to disregard tech sharing, because there's simply no way to know what people can do with it. How many FTL drives can the 12 colonies produce a year? Are they compatible with the 'verses power generation, or do they interfere with helgen targeting systems? If there are issues, how long will it take to fix them, if they even are fixable?


Of the listed factions, I'm not familiar with killzone behind "basically modern military IN SPESS and also nazis", so I can't say how they'll do, though given the ISA fought through whatever space defenses they had and annihilated thier navy with, to my knowledge, relative ease, does not bode well for them.

As far as I can tell with the colonial marines, the longest range gun on thier ships has an effective range of 250 km, and they're only design to disable instrumentation, not ships (and it's not because aliensverse ships are super tough), and thier ship to ship rail guns are far weaker than the UNSC's. That leaves them hilariously outranged and outgunned against the covenant, and possibility even just combat ineffective.

Firefly is, if anything, even worse off.

BSG has the best odds, since they can at least pull off hit and run strikes with nukes. Probably going to be a one way trip a lot of the time, and will be lot less effective once the covenant start keeping their point defense lasers on all the time (BSG nukes are not fired in large enough volleys or at a great enough velocity to reliably get past covenant PD).
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
1. Helghan & Vekta (Killzone) + The Alliance & Browncoats (Firefly) + Colonial Marines/Earth (Aliens) + 12 Colonies + Cylons (nBSG) V's The Covenant

2. The Location is a neutral galaxy (All assets taken over eg shipyards, orbital infrastructure etc. Allies assets are all in a sphere 80LY wide. No Covenant facilities in that 80LY.

3. Victory Conditions- Covenat to kill the humans like OTL. The Alliance to survive for 5 years as a functioning society at around the same level as when they entered.

4. Battle Prerequisites- The Covenant know nothing about their opponents apart from being human. The Allies have 10 years prep time, tech sharing and have the general structure of the Covenant government and society. The Covenant believe (in some cases there is) a holy relic on all primary worlds the Allies occupy so wont go straight for glassing.

Thematically it could be fun.

With the Alliance/Browncoats, they live in a small star cluster of five stars and seven brown dwarfs with over sixty or so Earth style planets spinning around. So it appears pretty densely populated. The Twelve Colonies meanwhile are almost literally all in the same star system, and almost all of the planets are heavily populated to the billions and had a very large (for their size) industrial capacity. Plus the Cylons. I never played Killzone so I can't speculate on that and my knowledge of the AvP setting with the Colonial Marines is pretty hazy, but their canon policy is just as hazy so...

This eighty light year across area of them sounds like it could actually contain all of them. I'm not too big a fan of tech sharing in general since it can easily lead into weird ASB territory but the fact they can use nBSG Hyperdrive to get around FTL wise would be nice.

I guess I'd envision the three civilization in that the Alliance and Twelve Colonies and the AvP polities as their own thing. The Twelve Colonies obviously developed independently (Ancient Human Aliens like we see in Stargate) and the Alliance might've been emigres from the AvPverse Humanity and so the AvPverse Humanity despite being the origin of Humans doesn't neccessarily mean they are the most developed polity.

The Twelve Colonies and their Cylon buddies would likely be the resource base. Those Twelve worlds alone maintained a fleet of 120 Battlestars and thousands of smaller ships and dozens of squadrons of Raptors and Vipers and this was in spite of a peace dividend of almost an entire generation. The Cylons meanwhile had a seemingly smaller but still sizable military industrial capacity (and could very likely devote more of their resources to it) so the Twelve Colonies would seem to be the industrial core and maybe economic core of this Alliance.

Between the two of them they could probably field a few hundred capital grade warships perhaps if they shifted more resources to a military stance.

The United Americas (apparently that's the name of the Colonial Marines overall polity) and megacorporations like Weyland-Yutani meanwhile despite being the home of Earth, would likely be the ones who control the idea of pushing out to the edges of their little part of the galaxy. They'll be the ones sending out the colonists into the great unknown, expanding the frontier and with their self sufficient, heavily automated and highly trained and professional Colonial Marine Corps, be able to set up all of the frontier and border areas for development and along with being scouts and recon and a military force, can start shipping resources back to the industrial heart of the Low-Tiers which would likely include the Sol System and other larger colonies they might possess and which likely possess quite an impressive industrial and economic base as well but the Twelve Colonies and Alliance as well.

The Universal Alliance meanwhile seems a far bit less dense militarily then the other groups. Twelve systems and sixty Earths plus loads of habitable moons and everything and the Alliance outside of the Core seems to have a very light touch, but those Core Worlds are highly developed as we can see with advanced modern technology and big urban centers at the very least. But they could still be militarily challenged or threatened by a potential Independent/Browncoat threat which makes me think they aren't a military powerhouse. They do have some capacity, a strong intelligence network and some quirky research projects and highly capable individuals. But they'd seem to be the 'weakest' main faction of the three.

The Browncoats/Independents would likely be useful as well, but it'd be as a support. Special Operations. Supporting frontier operation. Smuggling. Trade. Information broking. Counter-intelligence and espionage. Plus they'd be a glue and a lubricant of a social fabric between all of the factions involved. Their independent streak means that in the Low Tier Alliance they could work with everyone even if its through black markets and back channels instead of officially.

Beyond Hyperdrives, the only other tech sharing that might be needed is in ship to ship weapons. The Colonial Navy uses heavy guns (like you see on Pegasus) and loads of flak style cannons (which you see everywhere) and has the capability to launch nuclear missiles. The Cylons love using nuclear missile launchers and has some EW capability.

The Alliance/Browncoats apparently have lots of autocannons of indeterminate origin, some of the vessels like the Longbow-class Patrol Cruisers are also giant space cannons but also according the the RPG many of their ships have banks of hundreds and hundreds of missiles and not just exploding ones, but decoy missiles as well.

And the poor Colonial Marines, from what limitedness we've seen, uses lasers for missile interception and the Conestoga-class main anti-ship weapon is a mere eight anti-starship missiles which look cool but seem wholly inadequate to go up against the Covenant. That'll be needing an upgrade.

The main benefit of the Low Tier Alliance is that the Cylons/Twelve Colonies can probably pump out the big warships while the United Alliance and United Americas can churn out loads of smaller ships, variations of space cannon type of vessels and ones that act like missile boats. The UNSC's main weapon before using MAC Cannons and SMAC cannons and variations thereof was launching Archer Missiles which wasn't a great option, but still somewhat effective against the Covenant. The Low Tier Alliance could do missile spam pretty well it seems, but is way behind on the big cannons to blow away the enemy. The newer Battletars have big guns, and the Alliance uses big guns on some of their ships, so that could be brought to bear to swat at Covenant vessels but it just doesn't seem to be on the same level.

Ideally they'd be launching missile spams, pegging away with heavy guns and using their scads of fighters, bombers, raiders and attack aircraft simultaneously to overwhelm the filthy alien menaces.

In regards to a 'Cole Protocol' that seems like something that would be up the alley of the Cylons because if the Covenant finds them towards the onset, it just might be ggwp because the Low Tier Alliance just doesn't seem to have the strategic depth.
 

Senor Hortler

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
There is a RPG that does say that the Alliance has some prototype force field technology that's limited by their access to power generation (which means the things must be fucking monsters since Firefly ships can traverse solar systems within weeks on bummed out shit tier fusion reactors); and plasma weapons that can vaporise tonnes of armour plating every shot; but they prefer to use missiles and guided rail gun shots (as in the shots themselves are capable of adjusting mid flight.); that can be rigged as nuclear weapons as and when needed all the way down to their fighter crafts missiles and nose guns.

Weapons wise the RPG book says that the main weapon used in 'battleship' combat are multitonne kinetic/explosive/nuclear missiles that move at an average of 2 miles a second; which at two tonnes for a low end of multitonne missiles is less than a kiloton of kinetic energy for the missiles; so kinetic warheads are probably not going to cut it for fighting anything more than the smallest covenant vessels; and even then they'd probably have to mount nukes on them to be the least be efffective.

Not sure that could actually help them all that much though gotta be honest.

One of the weird things the RPG has is that the economy of the 'verse in FIrefly is really, really weird. They use precious metal backed currencies of literal Gold, Silver and Platinum. Like it's not a euphemism, the RPG says that coins are literally made of the stuff; a gold coin is worth 0.2 alliance credits, and $5 dollars. Not sure how that economy is going to interact with the rest of the alliance if they're expecting to be paid in solid platinum, or gold in the outer rim sections. A measly Hummingbird fighter costs 3400 alliance credits

In terms of actual developed technology the Alliance probably sits miles ahead of everyone else. The RPG book explains that their ships don't use normal rockets as part of general haul flights, they use a combination of inertia less drives, anti gravity screens to simply eliminate any issues of weight; warship hulls are made of nanotech that makes knocking them out hard as hell because the ships hull and internals all serve as heat, and electrical carriers. In terms of ship 'speed' the RPG notes that the average burn from one edge of the known verse to the other (a ten light hour distance, about 7.2 AU) takes 17 weeks for a ship that most people could reasonably see flying around; there are ones that can run it faster and ones that would take slower.

Best bet is probably to just hide from the covenant as much as is possible, because I can't see them taking them on in a straight fight.
 

Harlock

I should have expected that really
I figure with Aliens we've only seen armed troop transports. They have weapons but seem optimised for ground support. I wouldn't judge the USN on one of its LPDs :) We know they do fight peer level opponents in conventional warfare though apparently with a lot of emphasis on stealth and misdirection. We know there is a real Navy and they have at the very least Carriers which suggests escorts too.
Worth mentioning the other two big players too, the Union of Progressive Peoples (Space Commies) and the Three World Empire (Glorious space Imperialists) who also field major military forces. In an all out war they would likely have to unite with the United Americas

May also be worth noting the Alien universe is very strongly suggested to be the same as Blade Runner which did have real warships and planet scouring WMDs, but otherwise while the RPG says there are massive fleets and large numbers of worlds details are sparse outside the USMC book.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Is there any data on the bigger stuff that is in the Colonial Marines verse setting? I remember long ago that a lot of the technical readouts and RPG material from that universe were hosted on the internet showing things like the Army tanks and other heavy equipment but it's been ages since then.
 

Harlock

I should have expected that really
There was a tech manual for the USCMC which showed their other gear, Tanks, artillery, more info on the dropships and transports including a bit of a summary on ship to ship combat. But that is it. It is said other ships exist and the RPG supports this, but beside a mention nothing.

Plenty of data for a ground combat showdown, next to nothing for space.
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
I think the Allies are too low tech to survive. oBSG would be higher up on the totem pole, and instead of Aliens Earth you'd want B5 Earth at the very least. Though B5 EA could have a lot of synergy with nBSG FTL drives, which are the only tech the nBSG Colonials have going for them. Now, if the Allies included oBSG Cylons, that changes things...
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I remember this being posted on a Sister site.

Really the Alliance does not have the power in thier weapons to be able to kill Covie ships.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
1. Helghan & Vekta (Killzone) +

I just realized this was kind of looked over. I never played the Killzone games so I don't have a frame of reference on them. Any ideas on what they could bring to this alliance, either on the ground or in SPAAAAAACE etc?
 

Laskar

Would you kindly?
Founder
I just realized this was kind of looked over. I never played the Killzone games so I don't have a frame of reference on them. Any ideas on what they could bring to this alliance, either on the ground or in SPAAAAAACE etc?
AFAIK, they're not much more powerful than The Alliance from Firefly. They have artificial gravity of some kind, but they haven't been seen to throw around the big guns that the UNSC has.
 

Kevral

Active member
I just realized this was kind of looked over. I never played the Killzone games so I don't have a frame of reference on them. Any ideas on what they could bring to this alliance, either on the ground or in SPAAAAAACE etc?
Mostly they bring FTL coms and travel(roughly 104 LY per day IIRC).
Also production - Vekta was able to build from scratch at least 32 700 metre plus nuclear laser powered warships in under 1 year after being invaded. Helghan who are much more heavily industrialized and have dedicated warship production facilities unlike Vekta should be able to pump out more.
Weapons wise - Red dust - neutron bombs, Snow, very long range (by visual sci fi standrds) anti ship missiles, anti ship and ground bombardment laser and electricity weapons, drones, lots of drones (ATAC's and sentry drones)
Defense wise - energy shielding and energy weapon absorbant armour
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top