Libertarianism as the Handmaiden to Socialism

[Captain X]

I know from experience that there are people who think of themselves as "Libertarian Socialist." Basically, they're anarco-communists and the only thing that really separates them from the antifa types is that they believe in non-violence. I shouldn't have to explain that people like this do not in fact represent libertarians, who are obsessed with property rights.

 

[Navarro]

I mean, in the end, the money quote when it comes to designing governments to me always goes back to Federalist 51:
(Emphasis added.)

But you have to see, don't you! There's no reason to second-guess the ideal absolute monarch as envisioned by Thomas Carlyle! He needs no restraint or limitation on his powers because he's morally impeccable and he's an omnicompetent wunderkind and he's awake 24/7/365 and he can multi-task twelve dozen things at once! This one man can serve as the entire government! It's just a shame nobody ever seems to have found one yet! Checkmate, you "founding felons"! Checkmate I say! /s

 

[Lord Sovereign]

But you have to see, don't you! There's no reason to second-guess the ideal absolute monarch as envisioned by Thomas Carlyle! He needs no restraint or limitation on his powers because he's morally impeccable and he's an omnicompetent wunderkind and he's awake 24/7/365 and he can multi-task twelve dozen things at once! This one man can serve as the entire government! It's just a shame nobody ever seems to have found one yet! Checkmate, you "founding felons"! Checkmate I say! /s

To add to this, there's a reason the initial French Revolutionaries, whilst still monarchists of a stripe, had a raging boner for England's Parliamentary Monarchy. Absolutism or excess in anything is the undoing of all things, and Louis XIV's rotten legacy left France in tatters.

 

[FriedCFour]

Absolutism or excess in anything is the undoing of all things, and Louis XIV's rotten legacy left France in tatters.

That’s not really true lol. It was fairly successful in Prussia and absolutism and their military built Germany. Many Caesars were quite better than the late republic.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

That’s not really true lol. It was fairly successful in Prussia and absolutism and their military built Germany. Many Caesars were quite better than the late republic.

Prussia was absolutist on paper (no more absolute than a fair few of its neighbours), but for much of the 19th century the lion's share of the power was held by the Chancellor. The German Empire Bismarck created was far more of a Constitutional Monarchy, for all its faults, than an absolute one. As for the Princeps of Rome, the clue lies in the name of "first citizen" or "Princeps Senatus." Roman Emperors were meant to rule in accordance with and alongside the Senate, who remained a venerable institution down the years of the Empire, even into the Dominate. Also, aforementioned Dominate is where the Caesars get a whole load more power and things really start going into nosedive for the Romans.

 

[Navarro]

Prussia was absolutist on paper (no more absolute than a fair few of its neighbours), but for much of the 19th century the lion's share of the power was held by the Chancellor. The German Empire Bismarck created was far more of a Constitutional Monarchy, for all its faults, than an absolute one.

IIRC Germany had universal male suffrage before the UK.

 

[FriedCFour]

IIRC Germany had universal male suffrage before the UK.

The Prussian voting system had it economically proportionate, so that poor people had less representatives in politics which was quite smart.

 

[Navarro]

The Prussian voting system had it economically proportionate, so that poor people had less representatives in politics which was quite smart.

You do know what the respective bases of the American populist movement and its opposition are, right?

 

[FriedCFour]

You do know what the respective bases of the American populist movement and its opposition are, right?

The middle class and working class whites within the fly over states as their basis. The opposition are upper middle class professionals, poor/minority and the wealthy elite, centered around the coasts and centers of immigration. It cuts more evenly along racial and religious lines, with one being mainly white and Christian and the other being heavily Jewish, black, Hispanic and Asian. The Prussians being you know, mainly Prussian/German didn’t have these problems, excepting Poles, primarily Jewish Poles who were disproportionately communist but even they mainly did not settle in Prussia or take charge there politically. They staged their communist revolutions in western and southern Germany primarily.