LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

If you'd like to continue debating and make a response to what I said here I'm all for it. I'm glad to hear you're concerned with keeping the thread on track and following the rules.

There's nothing there to respond too except more bullshit from you that has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Which is that troon acceptance and tolerance is incompatible with right wing political positions of any form.

You don't get to derail a thread to demand someone cater to your need to be seen as morally superior, you aren't and I will do nothing but mock the fuck out of you over it with one hand while addressing the topic with the other.

So fuck off with your spam posts you pearl clutching white knight.

 

[Stargazer]

There's nothing there to respond too except more bullshit from you that has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Which is that troon acceptance and tolerance is incompatible with right wing political positions of any form.

You don't get to derail a thread to demand someone cater to your need to be seen as morally superior, you aren't and I will do nothing but mock the fuck out of you over it with one hand while addressing the topic with the other.

So fuck off with your spam posts you pearl clutching white knight.

The thread title is "LGBT and the US conservative movement". Not "LGBT and US right wing politics".

I don't accept transgender ideology. However, I do believe that "tolerance" of sinners and ideological enemies, meaning treating them with kindness and love rather than enmity and violence, is an important Christian value as I can demonstrate with Scripture. Given that I align with the US conservative movement on account of my Christian beliefs, and always have, I believe such tolerance should be an important value to the US conservative movement as well.

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Galatians 5:13-26 ESV

Still not going anywhere.

 

[Bacle]

The issue that separates trannies form the rest of the LGBs is that LGBs do not ask/demand society humor their lies about what biological sex they are.

Lumping Ts in with the LGBs has done the LGBs a huge dissevice, and is only done because Ts would never get much support on their own, so they had to parasite themselves on to the LGBs just to get any pull or backing.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The thread title is "LGBT and the US conservative movement". Not "LGBT and US right wing politics".

Which was covered already you pedantic asshat.

I don't accept transgender ideology. However, I do believe that "tolerance" of sinners and ideological enemies, meaning treating them with kindness and love rather than enmity and violence, is an important Christian value as I can demonstrate with Scripture. Given that I align with the US conservative movement on account of my Christian beliefs, and always have, I believe such tolerance should be an important value to the US conservative movement as well.

Your belief doesn't permit you to derail the thread because you are ass blasted people aren't using super censored happy feels language.

Still not going anywhere.

No you'll just spam bible passages at us all completely misrepresenting my position solely to try and force people not to call the front hole brigade out on being groomers.

You are disrupting the thread to try and force me to censor my language.

Ain't happening.

You ain't censoring or silencing me son.

 

[Stargazer]

Which was covered already you pedantic asshat.

Your belief doesn't permit you to derail the thread because you are ass blasted people aren't using super censored happy feels language.

That belief is directly relevant to the topic of LGBT and the US conservative movement.

No you'll just spam bible passages at us all completely misrepresenting my position solely to try and force people not to call the front hole brigade out on being groomers.

You are disrupting the thread to try and force me to censor my language.

Ain't happening.

You ain't censoring or silencing me son.

I'm not trying to "force" you into anything. My initial request to not use needless derogatory language, not to use slurs, wasn't even addressed to you, you jumped in and asked why we should "censor ourselves". And I explained my reasons why I think we should avoid such language. Whether or not you accept my reasons are up to you. (though if you're really so concerned with the rules, I'd argue the t-word as Alathon used it falls under the rule against using slurs intended to demean a person for a group identity).

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Troons aren't a race. Slurs should only be considered slurs if they are racial in nature otherwise its just a spiral down a slope of any pejorative I don't like is a slur.

Context matters too, I call myself a spic all the time or flippantly call nordicists snow apes it doesn't mean I wanna go lynch Germans or perpetrate a Hate crime against myself. If your so called piety can't allow for context then your piety is no different then the secularists who wanna destroy your religion.

Back to it. You will silence no one, you will not tone police anyone. Not without generous mockery

That belief is directly relevant to the topic of LGBT and the US conservative movement.

When you relentlessly spam bible quotes as if they're a magical get out of jail free card to mask your concern trolling? No it isn't

 

[Stargazer]

Troons aren't a race. Slurs should only be considered slurs if they are racial in nature otherwise its just a spiral down a slope of any pejorative I don't like is a slur.

Context matters too, I call myself a spic all the time or flippantly call nordicists snow apes it doesn't mean I wanna go lynch Germans. If your so called piety can't allow for context then your piety is no different then the secularists who wanna destroy your religion.

Back to it. You will silence no one, you will not tone police anyone.



When you relentlessly spam bible quotes as if they're a magical get out of jail free card to mask your concern trolling? No it isn't

The standard given in the rules that you're so concerned about is that slurs which demean a person for a group identity are no bueno. It's not limited to race. Transgender people are a group identity.

I'm not trying to silence you, though if you try accusing me of going against the rules I will cite them right back at you. You're the one telling me to go away, I'm not.

What I said about my deriving my values as a US conservative from my Christian values is what's directly relevant to the thread.

 

[bintananth]

The issue that separates trannies form the rest of the LGBs is that LGBs do not ask/demand society humor their lies about what biological sex they are.

Lumping Ts in with the LGBs has done the LGBs a huge dissevice, and is only done because Ts would never get much support on their own, so they had to parasite themselves on to the LGBs just to get any pull or backing.

There's are major differences between trannies, transexuals, and cross-dressers.

Cross-dresser: they can pass for either sex just by the outfit they happen to be wearing
Tranny: they aren't trying to disguise their physical sex and, in fact, often play this up for entertainment
Transexual: they want a different sex from the one they were born with and are trying convince you that what they say is true

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The standard given in the rules that you're so concerned about is that slurs which demean a person for a group identity are no bueno. It's not limited to race. Transgender people are a group identity.

Again it's not a slur. It's a pejorative and it demean individual troons, not troons as a whole.

I'm not trying to silence you, though if you try accusing me of going against the rules I will cite them right back at you. You're the one telling me to go away, I'm not

.

Citing the rules to concern trolling verses telling you to stop spamming the thread like a subject of this conversation on full hormone imbalance induced psychosis isn't the same thing.

What I said about my deriving my values as a US conservative from my Christian values is what's directly relevant to the thread.

Spamming the thread to derail the thread because you can't do anything other than stonewall is not being ontopic.

There's are major differences between trannies, transexuals, and cross-dressers.

Cross-dresser: they can pass for either sex just by the outfit they happen to be wearing
Tranny: they aren't trying to disguise their physical sex and, in fact, often play this up for entertainment
Transexual: they want a different sex from the one they were born with and are trying convince you that what they say is true

Most crossdressers also tend to be straight and do it for monetary reasons. Usually any way.

Edit a lot of old school crossdressers were performers at mob owned gay clubs and usually doubled as the guys who kept an eye on the joint/ ran security.

While the Sicilians had no issue taking money from gay dudes they certainly weren't gonna let gay dudes run in their crews.

 

[bintananth]

Most crossdressers also tend to be straight and do it for monetary reasons. Usually any way.

Edit a lot of old school crossdressers were performers at mob owned gay clubs and usually doubled as the guys who kept an eye on the joint/ ran security.

While the Sicilians had no issue taking money from gay dudes they certainly weren't gonna let gay dudes run in their crews.

I can't speak for what you've said, but I can say this: when my twin sister's husband* wants to be rid of a guy who likes him too much the "upset wife" who shows up might be me. I look and sound almost exactly like her.

* He's a large gay man from the 'hood

 

[King Arts]

I can't speak for what you've said, but I can say this: when my twin sister's husband* wants to be rid of a guy who likes him too much the "upset wife" who shows up might be me. I look and sound almost exactly like her.

* He's a large gay man from the 'hood

Your sister married a gay guy?

 

[bintananth]

Your sister married a gay guy?

Yes.

 

[King Arts]

Yes.

Umm I suppose the question is how did such a pair come to be a woman and an openly gay guy?

 

[Stargazer]

Again it's not a slur. It's a pejorative and it demean individual troons, not troons as a whole.

"Tranny", "troon", etc are general terms that are demeaning to transgender people as a whole.

Citing the rules to concern trolling verses telling you to stop spamming the thread like a subject of this conversation on full hormone imbalance induced psychosis isn't the same thing.

Are you sure there even is a rule on this board regarding "concern trolling"?

Spamming the thread to derail the thread because you can't do anything other than stonewall is not being ontopic.

I'm very glad that you are concerned with keeping the thread on topic. Can you explain how a response like "Then every time you attempt to use me to boost yourself, you're going to get rocked." is on topic for the thread?

 

[Pocky Balboa]

He's literally just spamming the thread because he thinks he can stonewall me into silence. This isn't about proving his faith, it's about salvaging wounded pride. Homeboy doesn't like that most people don't care about being PC.

Edit- he's more or less shitting up the thread to stop criticism and halt debate because he objects to the tone of the debate itself.

That's concern trolling to derail a thread and I'm pretty sure that's against the rules.

Quite frankly, I find his spamming quotes from Scripture as if they were some cheap memes to win an Internet argument utterly disrespectful and disgusting. I don't even do that with books I hate and loathe, let alone with any texts, religious or otherwise I have great respect for. Definitely makes me doubt about the sincerity of his faith, or if he's actually a Christian at all.

 

[bintananth]

Umm I suppose the question is how did such a pair come to be a woman and an openly gay guy?

That would be a topic for another thread which might breach the TS rule prohibiting X-rated content to explain.

BTW: the actual father of one of my twin sister's kids is married to one of our other sisters.

 

[LordSunhawk]

The Boot is getting to actually engage in some moderation! The Boot missed this... like a toothache. The Boot wishes to ask all participants in this latest dustup to take a deep breath, go back to your corner, wipe off the blood, spit, and other fluids, etc etc etc.

@Stargazer, simply quoting Bible verses as your argument is not particularly appropriate to this thread. We do not care about good or bad faith arguments, but we do try and keep things on topic. Going forward, please refrain from such in this thread or any thread that is not devoted to biblical quotes, exegesis, or apologetics.

Everybody else. Our ban on slurs and such is apparently being misunderstood to include things that are not generally accepted as such if it helps an argument. Trap is not a slur in the sense of our rules, nor is tranny. Troon is marginal, but we tend to err on the side of not hitting things. If it becomes too much of a problem we'll let people know but will not, and the Boot repeats itself, will not, hit people retroactively from such a decision.

That being said, the Boot does request that people try to refrain from being openly antagonistic towards other posters. Engage the argument, not the man (or woman, or Boot). This is not a question of rules, and you will not be infracted or punished for doing so, but rather a general piece of advice for effective argumentation.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

If there is a lesson from this thread, it is that LGBTP are a massive weakness and point of attack for the U.S. conservative movement.

Within the set of Americans who call themselves Conservatives, there is strife on the topic and no hint of an emerging consensus. Few seem happy with the LGBTP actors or positions, but Conservatism Inc does its best to browbeat the rest into grudging tolerance, lest Google take away their add revenue and soccer moms take away their elected representatives.

Within the set of Americans who could conceivably vote for a Conservative candidate (such as me), LGBTP is a liability on two fronts. Voters estranged from the Democrat party by leftist insanity and incompetence run up against Christian morals and balk; even when they are watching leftists drive their country off a cliff, non-relativist morals remain terribly alien. Perhaps worse, they know they will face harassment and shunning by friends and family if they get caught out on the topic -- speak the wrong word, endorse the wrong candidate, and it's a thing.

From the other side of the potential voter angle, decades of failure against LGBTP movements and the enforcement of LGBTP privileges, has robbed Conservatism of credibility. If they can't conserve sexual morality, what can they conserve? Overtly devout Christians are by far the largest constituency within the Conservative umbrella... but they are told to sit down and shut up so Conservative candidates can woo moral relativists and sodomites at the polls. With friends like Conservatism Inc, who needs enemies?

Speaking of those enemies, Democrats and leftists in general have made a lot of gains over the years through the LGBTP agenda. It has been a highly effective tool to drag conversation away from things like 'responsible spending' and 'small government' in favor of Doing The Right Thing and Being On The Right Side Of History. They know how much they have won, and will never stop attacking their enemies for being 'homophobic'. Doesn't really matter what Conservatives do, the leftist media will blast them for being 'hateful' and 'backwards', and a lot of people listen to that shit. There is some modest risk of Hispanic voters balking, but they send their kids to public schools run by leftist ideologues, so that won't last for long.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I think there is a happy middle ground here, that doesn't involve legislating against either side. I'd say raging about "sodomy" is an error when we could be going after promiscuity. This is something we can all agree (seriously, promiscuity being a problem is a Sargon of Akkad viewpoint no less) is having a terrible affect on society, and frowning on it is very much built upon Christian sexual morals. That is a two birds with one stone situation, as by making that taboo you deal a knockout punch to deviancy and degeneracy not just in the alphabet community but the whole of society.

"Make marriage great again" I suppose, or at least introduce a sanctity to sex (IE, don't be a slut).

 

[Bacle]

If there is a lesson from this thread, it is that LGBTP are a massive weakness and point of attack for the U.S. conservative movement.

Within the set of Americans who call themselves Conservatives, there is strife on the topic and no hint of an emerging consensus. Few seem happy with the LGBTP actors or positions, but Conservatism Inc does its best to browbeat the rest into grudging tolerance, lest Google take away their add revenue and soccer moms take away their elected representatives.

Within the set of Americans who could conceivably vote for a Conservative candidate (such as me), LGBTP is a liability on two fronts. Voters estranged from the Democrat party by leftist insanity and incompetence run up against Christian morals and balk; even when they are watching leftists drive their country off a cliff, non-relativist morals remain terribly alien. Perhaps worse, they know they will face harassment and shunning by friends and family if they get caught out on the topic -- speak the wrong word, endorse the wrong candidate, and it's a thing.

From the other side of the potential voter angle, decades of failure against LGBTP movements and the enforcement of LGBTP privileges, has robbed Conservatism of credibility. If they can't conserve sexual morality, what can they conserve? Overtly devout Christians are by far the largest constituency within the Conservative umbrella... but they are told to sit down and shut up so Conservative candidates can woo moral relativists and sodomites at the polls. With friends like Conservatism Inc, who needs enemies?

Speaking of those enemies, Democrats and leftists in general have made a lot of gains over the years through the LGBTP agenda. It has been a highly effective tool to drag conversation away from things like 'responsible spending' and 'small government' in favor of Doing The Right Thing and Being On The Right Side Of History. They know how much they have won, and will never stop attacking their enemies for being 'homophobic'. Doesn't really matter what Conservatives do, the leftist media will blast them for being 'hateful' and 'backwards', and a lot of people listen to that shit. There is some modest risk of Hispanic voters balking, but they send their kids to public schools run by leftist ideologues, so that won't last for long.

Or maybe the Right can just not try to drive away Independent voters who do care, and who the Right needs in order to beat the Left in a lot of battleground areas. You do not gain political power by driving away swing voters in order to pander to a shrinking hardcore Evangelical fringe.

The best thing most people on the Right can do with regards to LGB stuff is accept that the Right is not under the sole control of Evangelicals or their ilk anymore, never will be again (unless the Right just wants to lose in perpetuity), and that if they want to get LGB votes while protecting their own political gains, focus on the T shit while leaving the LGBs alone.