• Attention All Comstar Customers, Due to unexpected interference by suspected Word of Blake operatives, the HPG systems update was *not* successful. No data was lost due to our careful and extensive backups; however, we will need to try again next weekend. Sincerely, Comstar Precentor Dune

Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum

Bacle

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They are just saying it outloud now.

Brain-uploading is the end goal of the WEF; it's why they act as they do. The goal is effective immortality in digital form, where the human body becomes effectively a vestigial organ/amusement park.
 

Cherico

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They are just saying it outloud now.

Brain-uploading is the end goal of the WEF; it's why they act as they do. The goal is effective immortality in digital form, where the human body becomes effectively a vestigial organ/amusement park.
huburis death comes for us all.
 

LordsFire

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They are just saying it outloud now.

Brain-uploading is the end goal of the WEF; it's why they act as they do. The goal is effective immortality in digital form, where the human body becomes effectively a vestigial organ/amusement park.
Well, if they want to kill themselves in a doomed science experiment, that's their prerogative.

It isn't going to work, not any time in the next few decades or centuries for technical reasons, nor likely ever for metaphysical reasons.
 

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Well, if they want to kill themselves in a doomed science experiment, that's their prerogative.

It isn't going to work, not any time in the next few decades or centuries for technical reasons, nor likely ever for metaphysical reasons.
Question is, how many good people will their stupidity kill, directly or otherwise, before they are brought down?
 
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Well, if they want to kill themselves in a doomed science experiment, that's their prerogative.

It isn't going to work, not any time in the next few decades or centuries for technical reasons, nor likely ever for metaphysical reasons.
It's going to work eventually. Tech is only getting better and better
 

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Only if we allow that technology to be developed. And assuming said technology is even possible.
I think It's 100% possible to eventually make a computer powerful enough to mimic the human brain. It's basically just an organic computer anyways. We will probably invent ones that are far superior at some point.

And of course it'll be allowed, when the world's elite are funding and encouraging it. Who's going to stop them?

Look what happened with covid-19. That wasn't even legal research but the US was still funding it.
 

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It's going to work eventually. Tech is only getting better and better
Is it? I wouldn't be sure it's technically possible to do in a more than rudimentary way. We do not even fully understand how exactly human intelligence is tied with the hardware it is running on. Translating it to work on silicon, in the same way at that, is going to be a similar problem as with multiplatforming computer software between different processor architectures (the result is often buggy as hell and not exactly the same), times million, and that's without even getting into the continuity related problems. If they want to create a shitty AI loosely based on themselves and kill themselves because of it, thinking it's totally them, it's their problem. We will necessarily deal with general AI related issues before that or die trying anyway.
 

Rocinante

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Is it? I wouldn't be sure it's technically possible to do in a more than rudimentary way. We do not even fully understand how exactly human intelligence is tied with the hardware it is running on. Translating it to work on silicon, in the same way at that, is going to be a similar problem as with multiplatforming computer software between different processor architectures (the result is often buggy as hell and not exactly the same), times million, and that's without even getting into the continuity related problems. If they want to create a shitty AI loosely based on themselves and kill themselves because of it, thinking it's totally them, it's their problem. We will necessarily deal with general AI related issues before that or die trying anyway.
Look how far and fast tech has come in the last 50-100 years or so.

Give it another 50. 100. 1000.

We will get there, as long as we don't blow ourselves up first.

I'm a firm believer that the end of the human race will actually be more or a transformation of the human race, into technological hybrids. We will ne made obsolete by our own creations.
 

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Look how far and fast tech has come in the last 50-100 years or so.

Give it another 50. 100. 1000.

We will get there, as long as we don't blow ourselves up first.

I'm a firm believer that the end of the human race will actually be more or a transformation of the human race, into technological hybrids. We will ne made obsolete by our own creations.
In a thousand years? Maybe the technical capacity will exist.

In fifty or a hundred? We aren't even close to being close.

I don't think you understand just how difficult 'digital mind uploads' are.

There's basically two theoretical models for how this could be done.

One of them is 'transfer the mind itself' as a concept. A lot of sci-fi that does such things uses this, and the basic concept is that the mind is software running on the hardware of the brain. Once you develop technology that can read that software, you can copy/transfer it onto different hardware. An easily understandable theory, but...

We have no clue whatsoever what the 'software' of the brain looks like as data. We know that various forms of neural tissue in different parts of the brain are associated with different things, but we aren't even close to having something that can 'read' off of organic tissue. Every bit of cybernetic interface work being done right now, at least that I've ever heard of, is based on the organic learning how to interpret signals from the machine, and then respond in a way that the machine is pre-programmed to understand.

In other words, the organic hardware/software is learning to 'read' the digital stuff, speak its language, and respond. Work on digital reading organic has gone a fat lot of nowhere thus far. Whether or not this is even theoretically possible is still up in the air.


The other theoretical model is 'perfect simulation,' IE you run a digital simulation of a brain, and you have a person think because their 'mind' as software, is functioning on a virtual machine. This is actually even further away from us than the 'upload the mind as software' concept, for a wide variety of reasons, any one of which makes the project completely impossible to carry out.

1. Cells are insanely complex things. It's arguable that a single human cell is as complex as a modern computer, or at least a computer of 10 years ago. You need processing power and memory orders of magnitudes greater than what it is you're trying to simulate. This is probably the easiest thing to overcome, but even at the insane pace of computer power growth we've had over the last 40 years, accurately simulating a single cell is decades in the future, and doing billions of them for the human brain? Not even on the horizon.

2. The limits of human understanding. If you want true fidelity simulation, not just a 'eh, it's close enough' simulation, you need to simulate things down to at least the sub-atomic level. But you see, there's a problem with that. There are four fundamental forces in the universe; the Strong Nuclear Force, the Weak Nuclear Force, Electromagnetism, and Gravity. We don't fully understand how any of these work, having only varying partial degrees of understanding for each, and you're going to need that understanding to be close to perfect in order to accurately run such a simulation.

3. We don't fully understand how cells work. New understanding is gained, and flaws in old understanding are uncovered, every single year. How long will it take to gain a reasonably complete understanding of how cells work? We don't even know.

4. We don't remotely understand fully how the brain works. This is really just a lesser version of #3, but it's still at least decades away, if not more, in its own right.

5. Even if we understood these things, how would we gain an accurate scan of a brain and brain activity down to the last atom? This is an insanely difficult problem to overcome, to the point where harder sci-fi settings tend to deal with it via 'destructive scanning.' IE, 'in order for us to be able to accurately simulate your brain, we need to examine it so invasively that we will destroy it in the process.' Destroy it to the level of 'we are literally pulling it apart molecule by molecule, so that we can assemble a copy or simulation later.' This is a huge issue, and the technology for it isn't remotely close to existing.


I feel like I'm forgetting one or two more, but I'm getting groggy, so I'll cut it off here.

Suffice to say, mind upload is more the realm of fantasy than science fiction. As things currently stand, we have no real reason to believe it's possible at all, regardless of how much technology improves.
 

Marduk

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Look how far and fast tech has come in the last 50-100 years or so.

Give it another 50. 100. 1000.

We will get there, as long as we don't blow ourselves up first.

I'm a firm believer that the end of the human race will actually be more or a transformation of the human race, into technological hybrids. We will ne made obsolete by our own creations.
No, that's not what digitisation is about. What you are talking about is cyborgisation. What digitisation is about is full transfer of a person into digital form. The former is definitely easier and much closer - some argue we are already cyborgs in a way.
Digitisation, meanwhile, as something exemplified in sci-fi, is 40k Necron biotransferance.
Yes, it's even beyond what the Adeptus Mechanicus is willing to try.

Naturally, before we will be even able to say for sure if digitisation is truly possible, we will need to master human biology and computer science to a level where biological immortality, autonomous weapons and AI will seem like highschool science projects.
 

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No, that's not what digitisation is about. What you are talking about is cyborgisation. What digitisation is about is full transfer of a person into digital form. The former is definitely easier and much closer - some argue we are already cyborgs in a way.
Digitisation, meanwhile, as something exemplified in sci-fi, is 40k Necron biotransferance.
Yes, it's even beyond what the Adeptus Mechanicus is willing to try.

Naturally, before we will be even able to say for sure if digitisation is truly possible, we will need to master human biology and computer science to a level where biological immortality, autonomous weapons and AI will seem like highschool science projects.
Which begs the question; why are they're so obsessed with digital immortality, when biological immortality would be far easier and quicker to achieve, and doesn't come with any existential questions like is it actually you, or just a soulless copy?
 

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Which begs the question; why are they're so obsessed with digital immortality, when biological immortality would be far easier and quicker to achieve, and doesn't come with any existential questions like is it actually you, or just a soulless copy?
I suspect it's because they don't think that biological immortality is possible. Where at most, you'll just live longer, but there is a limit. They might even have knowledge gained from god-only-knows-what sort of secret experimentation to point them toward this view.

Also because by putting themselves beyond human biology, they thus become beyond human and insert stupid god-complex here. At least that's my speculation on such things. If anyone else has better ideas, I'd love to hear them.
 

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I suspect it's because they don't think that biological immortality is possible. Where at most, you'll just live longer, but there is a limit. They might even have knowledge gained from god-only-knows-what sort of secret experimentation to point them toward this view.

Also because by putting themselves beyond human biology, they thus become beyond human and insert stupid god-complex here. At least that's my speculation on such things. If anyone else has better ideas, I'd love to hear them.
It’s not like they’re going to go full blown Futurama with themselves, right? Or end up like that crazy doctor from the 2003 TMNT series.
 

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Which begs the question; why are they're so obsessed with digital immortality, when biological immortality would be far easier and quicker to achieve, and doesn't come with any existential questions like is it actually you, or just a soulless copy?
I suspect it's because they don't think that biological immortality is possible. Where at most, you'll just live longer, but there is a limit. They might even have knowledge gained from god-only-knows-what sort of secret experimentation to point them toward this view.

Also because by putting themselves beyond human biology, they thus become beyond human and insert stupid god-complex here. At least that's my speculation on such things. If anyone else has better ideas, I'd love to hear them.
Ironically, it's probably because they are boomers, and know medical science enough to expect results from serious sources. Meanwhile in the computer stuff, they are clueless, and so they will believe anything. Remember, these are people with 7+ digit bank accounts, bullshitting them can be lucrative.
 

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Which begs the question; why are they're so obsessed with digital immortality, when biological immortality would be far easier and quicker to achieve, and doesn't come with any existential questions like is it actually you, or just a soulless copy?
Simple; uploaded AI can survive interstellar journeys and conditions a squishy meatbag, even a biologically immortal one, cannot, or cannot as easily.

After all, if you could just grow a new body or build a new mech to inhabit at the far end, interstellar travel becomes much more feasible.
 
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