Israel versus Palestine: 2021 Edition

[GoldRanger]

Heads up, today at 17:30 Israel time (that's 3:30 PM UTC, or 10:30 AM EST) a potential escalation will occur, possibly even reigniting the conflict.

Israel intends to resume its annual "March of the Flags" in Jerusalem, that marks its unification in 1967 (it was cut off by Hamas rocket fire during the last escalation) while Hamas is threatening that it will resume the war if it comes to pass. Israel doesn't seem to be intending to back off, and will insist on our right to raise our flag in our capital despite the threats of terrorists.

The chances of the war fully resuming are not very high since Hamas REALLY can't afford that, but you never know.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Heads up, today at 17:30 Israel time (that's 3:30 PM UTC, or 10:30 AM EST) a potential escalation will occur, possibly even reigniting the conflict.

Israel intends to resume its annual "March of the Flags" in Jerusalem, that marks its unification in 1967 (it was cut off by Hamas rocket fire during the last escalation) while Hamas is threatening that it will resume the war if it comes to pass. Israel doesn't seem to be intending to back off, and will insist on our right to raise our flag in our capital despite the threats of terrorists.

The chances of the war fully resuming are not very high since Hamas REALLY can't afford that, but you never know.

How optimistic are you about the future?

The irondome looks to be working as intended as long as Israel spends billions back to refill the munitions.

 

[GoldRanger]

How optimistic are you about the future?

The irondome looks to be working as intended as long as Israel spends billions back to refill the munitions.

Regarding Hamas? Pretty damn optimistic. In the end they are a mosquito, who after giving us the best shot they had succeeded in only killing 10 people, and they clearly couldn't sustain even that pace of fire for long. That's not a serious threat to the country.

Now Iran and Hezbollah? That's another beast entirely, one that is 100 times as dangerous as Hamas. And I believe a conflict with them over the next few years is inevitable. Unfortunately, Lebanon is likely to be stuck in the middle of such a war and will be reduced to a Somalia-like existence even worse than they already have.

 

[ATP]

Regarding Hamas? Pretty damn optimistic. In the end they are a mosquito, who after giving us the best shot they had succeeded in only killing 10 people, and they clearly couldn't sustain even that pace of fire for long. That's not a serious threat to the country.

Now Iran and Hezbollah? That's another beast entirely, one that is 100 times as dangerous as Hamas. And I believe a conflict with them over the next few years is inevitable. Unfortunately, Lebanon is likely to be stuck in the middle of such a war and will be reduced to a Somalia-like existence even worse than they already have.

True about Hamas.About Iran - only if Izrael wish so.Iran talk big about how jews are bad,but consider both Turkey and Saudi Arabia as real enemies which should be fought.And they fight now saudis in Jemen and Turkey in Syria.They would did nothing,unless Israel decide to attack them.

 

[Robovski]

Incendiary balloons meet retaliation Israel strikes in Gaza after arson balloons launched

 

[King Arts]

When Americans firebomb cities or drone strike weddings, the flagrant civilian casualties are brushed off as "collateral damage" as if that excuses them from moral culpability. Nobody ever points out civilian casualties unless it's someone you don't like who did it. And a lot of people don't like Israel.

So far it seems like the IDF are near saints. Also seems weird to focus on the civilian casualties that the IDF do cause... when their enemies cause way, way more. But that would ruin the narrative.

Also Israel has the justification that the fighting is in their backyard in self defense, in fact Israel was attacked first in everyone of its wars except one. while America fights on the other side of the world and makes it look like pure imperialism.

By the standards some people judge Israel if a man breaks into your house and shoots you several times, but you're wearing a bulletproof best that stops the first couple of rounds and the third is just a flesh wound, you're a murderer if you shoot back and kill him.

Yeah I will agree that many people try to put unreasonable standards on Israel.

 

[GoldRanger]

Hamas' narrative of a divine victory is starting to come apart at the seams.

Qatari economic aid to Gaza is being withheld, the talks about rebuilding the Gaza strip are stuck, all that money multiple nations pledged for now exist only on pretty posters and politician's declarations while Hamas hadn't yet seen a single cent. Electricity is still running very short in the strip, much less hours of electricity than before the war.

Threats by Hamas prove ineffective at deterring Israeli actions, a deterrence Hamas tried with all its power to establish.

Hamas itself is deterred by Israel. In August 2020 Hamas claimed that from then on, every bombing of a Hamas position will be answered with rocket fire. Israel bombed Hamas positions tonight. No rocket fire. Israel also proceeded with its Flag March in Jerusalem despite the desperate threats of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other Gazan terrorist factions. Hamas didn't dare to do anything beyond sending a few incendiary balloons that did nothing but scorch a few bushes, and Israel retaliated by bombing Hamas positions, for which Hamas did... nothing.

In light of all this one can see that Hamas' position had worsened dramatically as compared to before the war, while Israel's remains the same.

Next time I suggest to everyone not to be blinded by Yahya Sinwar's pretty speeches (and he is, without a doubt, a great orator) but actually analyze what's going on.

 

[GoldRanger]

Escalation in progress: Israel is bombing Gaza again, since Hamas didn't get the hint the last time and kept sending incendiary balloons over the border.

In response, Hamas fired a couple of symbolic rockets - so far. Also there are claims that Hamas shot down a UAV over Gaza (almost certainly a small one used for tactical surveillance, not one of Israel's predator drone equivalents). Edit: the IDF has denied the report about the UAV.

No casualties so far, on either side.

We'll see how this plays out.

 

[Zachowon]

Escalation in progress: Israel is bombing Gaza again, since Hamas didn't get the hint the last time and kept sending incendiary balloons over the border.

In response, Hamas fired a couple of symbolic rockets - so far. Also there are claims that Hamas shot down a UAV over Gaza (almost certainly a small one used for tactical surveillance, not one of Israel's predator drone equivalents).

We'll see how this plays out.

Your Raven equivalent?

 

[GoldRanger]

Your Raven equivalent?

The IDF denied that report so it was probably false or disinformation (although who knows), but if it were true that'd probably be it.


It's called Skylark, and IIRC Gazan terrorists have downed a few of them before.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean they can be taken down by any small arms so...

 

[GoldRanger]

I mean they can be taken down by any small arms so...

Well yeah, pretty much. Nothing to brag about. There's footage circling the Telegram groups in the last hour of tracer rounds over Gaza that look like machine gun fire from the ground.

Edit: I've seen a report that they're 14.5 caliber machine guns.

 

[GoldRanger]

It's now in doubt that Hamas even fired any rockets.



Probably meaning the 14.5 guns, reportedly they can trigger the air defense warning system sometimes.

 

[Tiamat]

Well yeah, pretty much. Nothing to brag about. There's footage circling the Telegram groups in the last hour of tracer rounds over Gaza that look like machine gun fire from the ground.

Edit: I've seen a report that they're 14.5 caliber machine guns.

14.5mm? Likely either Soviet/Russian KPV's or the Chinese copy equivalent. Plenty of those floating around in typical Third World/militia armies.

Technically, a KPV is a machine gun, but the caliber size is on the extreme end. Go bigger and you cross into autocannon land.

 

[Zachowon]

14.5mm? Likely either Soviet/Russian KPV's or the Chinese copy equivalent. Plenty of those floating around in typical Third World/militia armies.

Technically, a KPV is a machine gun, but the caliber size is on the extreme end. Go bigger and you cross into autocannon land.

Could be the Anti air varient. The ZPU. Most likely as damn near EVERY third world country as those.
I know all about them,

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Could be the Anti air varient. The ZPU. Most likely as damn near EVERY third world country as those.
I know all about them,

IIRC, ZPU is formally the designation for the series of anti-aircraft gun mountings as opposed to the actual guns.

 

[Husky_Khan]

According to the Independent, Non-Partisan Canadian-Israeli Think Tank the Begin-Sadat Center, they have estimated upwards of 680 Palestinian rockets misfired resulting in the death of over ninety Palestinians, over a third of the total death roll. Comparatively, thirteen people were killed by Palestinian rocket attacks within Israel itself and over 250 Palestinians were killed in total during the conflict. Palestinian militant groups launched over 4300 rockets during this conflict.

How Many Gaza Palestinians Were Killed by Hamas Rockets in May? An Estimate

Much of the coverage and commentary surrounding the fighting in May between Hamas and Israel has focused on numbers, especially the much larger number of Palestinians than Israelis killed. The number

besacenter.org

Another 280 rockets somehow also ended up in the Mediterranean.

 

[GoldRanger]

Hamas summer camp for kids...

In the 3rd image they're practicing the abduction of an IDF soldier.

I remind you that these are the people the progressives and various NGOs are rooting for and consider the good guys of the conflict.

 

[Zachowon]

Would Hammas and these terror groups come to Irns aid?

 

[Aaron Fox]

Hamas summer camp for kids...

In the 3rd image they're practicing the abduction of an IDF soldier.

I remind you that these are the people the progressives and various NGOs are rooting for and consider the good guys of the conflict.

Actually, the funny thing is that the progressives backing the Palestinians have been waning for some time, the real problem is the Palestinian control of the narrative.