Islam Co-Existing With the Christian West

[LordsFire]

No I don't think conservatives have tried to get the votes of these people in a smart way. Conservative outreach at most is them just explaining conservative ideals, they don't specifically try to woe certain segments of the population(except for big business) let's use Asians as an example. Conservatives simply say "Affirmative action is wrong people should not be given a leg up because of their race, every person should be treated equally and judges solely by merit." Conservatives always try to play this stupid high minded bullshit instead of getting right down to Asians and telling them "Affirmative action hurts your people and here is why" they also don't use the tactics that work for the left like removing statues of FDR or other people during world war 2 that implemented internment, or they don't condemn atomic bombings. Quite simply they should start trying to win the Asian vote and tell them that the democrats have historically oppressed Asians bring up the Chinese Exclusion act and how racial discrimination against their people was mostly done in California by the ancestors of the people in power there the democrats. Is it race baiting? I don't care, the democrats are the enemy. And thats just to start, I mean the only non white group the right can count on the support of consistently is Cubans because they actually escaped a communist nation. But no the right needs to remove any lingering racism, and meet with the leaders of racial groups that can be won over maybe Imams for the Arab muslims, or see if there is some pan asian group for Asians like the NAACP is for blacks and start making alliances with them.

So basically either 'things that actually are and have been tried' or 'things that would violate our own principles to do.'

As I expected, you're just putting forward internet tryhard tactics and think you're much smarter than so many other people, when it's really just that you're ignorant to how difficult it is to actually accomplish a thing.

Also, please learn how to break up paragraphs properly.

 

[King Arts]

So basically either 'things that actually are and have been tried' or 'things that would violate our own principles to do.'

As I expected, you're just putting forward internet tryhard tactics and think you're much smarter than so many other people, when it's really just that you're ignorant to how difficult it is to actually accomplish a thing.

Also, please learn how to break up paragraphs properly.

So doing things that make you less likely to lose violates your principles? No wonder the westerners conservatives are famous for being losers.

 

[Marduk]

So doing things that make you less likely to lose violates your principles? No wonder the westerners conservatives are famous for being losers.

>less likely to lose
Here's the problem, you think that, those who disagree think this would be an idiotic attempt to gain few percent of support at most while pissing off several times as many core voters among nationalist and anti-immigration factions especially. They support the GOP because they are against cucking to foreign minorities, rather than because they want to cuck to different ones than DNC and for different reasons.

 

[King Arts]

>less likely to lose
Here's the problem, you think that, those who disagree think this would be an idiotic attempt to gain few percent of support at most while pissing off several times as many core voters among nationalist and anti-immigration factions especially. They support the GOP because they are against cucking to foreign minorities, rather than because they want to cuck to different ones than DNC and for different reasons.

Exactly how many of these "core voters" do you think there are in America? You call it cucking to foreign minorities, I call it building strategic alliances because here is the thing. The way to win in American politics as a democracy is to have more numbers. white males that did not go to college are not that large of a constituency, whites did not keep up their numbers. So this isn't their country anymore it's the country of those who are able to build coalitions. If the right fails, then you can look and see white males will be called uneducated bumpkins and honestly if they keep thinking this nation belongs solely to them they deserve to lose their power then.

 

[Marduk]

Exactly how many of these "core voters" do you think there are in America? You call it cucking to foreign minorities, I call it building strategic alliances because here is the thing.

Alliances require common cause. In this case the cause is contradictory. It would be a match of who backstabs the other first, and considering some factional dynamics, it would not work out well for the right.

The way to win in American politics as a democracy is to have more numbers. white males that did not go to college are not that large of a constituency, whites did not keep up their numbers. So this isn't their country anymore it's the country of those who are able to build coalitions. If the right fails, then you can look and see white males will be called uneducated bumpkins and honestly if they keep thinking this nation belongs solely to them they deserve to lose their power then.

Are you taking a piss here or what? Of course most white males in America identify as Americans rather than "white", that's white nationalists and they are few, and no nation ever, for biological reasons, exists without women.
Giving concessions to groups that identify as X before American is contradictory to that dominant faction of the right, as the contradiction between them is inherent. Any members of minorities ethnically who are potential allies for them also identify as Americans first, and do not consider "hyphenated American" style interest groups a good thing.
Those who do... well those obviously favor the other side, who is perfectly willing to play and is determined to win a game of "sell out the interests of non-hyphenated Americans and the country in general to minority interest groups for power".

 

[King Arts]

Alliances require common cause. In this case the cause is contradictory. It would be a match of who backstabs the other first, and considering some factional dynamics, it would not work out well for the right.


Are you taking a piss here or what? Of course most white males in America identify as Americans rather than "white", that's white nationalists and they are few, and no nation ever, for biological reasons, exists without women.
Giving concessions to groups that identify as X before American is contradictory to that dominant faction of the right, as the contradiction between them is inherent. Any members of minorities ethnically who are potential allies for them also identify as Americans first, and do not consider "hyphenated American" style interest groups a good thing.
Those who do... well those obviously favor the other side, who is perfectly willing to play and is determined to win a game of "sell out the interests of non-hyphenated Americans and the country in general to minority interest groups for power".

It seems to me like the conservatives are following in the footsteps of the Optimates of Ancient Rome. Just wallowing in the storied history of the Republic instead of looking in the present and seeing what can be done to help the most Americans, and actually win and retain power.

 

[Marduk]

It seems to me like the conservatives are following in the footsteps of the Optimates of Ancient Rome. Just wallowing in the storied history of the Republic instead of looking in the present and seeing what can be done to help the most Americans, and actually win and retain power.

That's the thing, is spending limited political and economic capital to help groups considering themselves separate from "most Americans" the right way to win and retain power?
In your Roman analogy, that's the equivalent of spending Roman's taxes to pay barbarians to defend Rome from other barbarians. Congratulations, now Romans are even less interested in defending Rome, and it's only a matter of time before the barbarians just take the money and do their own thing instead.

 

[King Arts]

That's the thing, is spending limited political and economic capital to help groups considering themselves separate from "most Americans" the right way to win and retain power?
In your Roman analogy, that's the equivalent of spending Roman's taxes to pay barbarians to defend Rome from other barbarians. Congratulations, now Romans are even less interested in defending Rome, and it's only a matter of time before the barbarians just take the money and do their own thing instead.

Wrong, you are looking at the late empire, I'm looking at the late Republic. Caesar and the Populares brought in many more new citizens into Rome, he granted citizenship and gifts/bribes to make the people love him. The optimates said that Rome should not give free stuff to the masses. The populares are more likely the democrats than the Republicans. I don't want to show that meme but the conservatives in the west seem to keep falling into the same trap.

 

[Marduk]

Wrong, you are looking at the late empire, I'm looking at the late Republic. Caesar and the Populares brought in many more new citizens into Rome, he granted citizenship and gifts/bribes to make the people love him. The optimates said that Rome should not give free stuff to the masses. The populares are more likely the democrats than the Republicans. I don't want to show that meme but the conservatives in the west seem to keep falling into the same trap.

And i was referring the trap the "populares" route took Rome into. What good is winning by inviting and bribing immigrants, if they in turn will tear the country apart once the going gets tough and bribes run out anyway? That's why populist policies, even if you make a good case for them, should be aimed at "easy targets", perhaps even the less easy but very worthwhile ones, however scatter shot generosity towards fairly or completely ideologically oppositional factions with openly contradictory interests is fucking crazy and idiotic.

 

[King Arts]

And i was referring the trap the "populares" route took Rome into. What good is winning by inviting and bribing immigrants, if they in turn will tear the country apart once the going gets tough and bribes run out anyway? That's why populist policies, even if you make a good case for them, should be aimed at "easy targets", perhaps even the less easy but very worthwhile ones, however scatter shot generosity towards fairly or completely ideologically oppositional factions with openly contradictory interests is fucking crazy and idiotic.

Umm you are complaining about something that happened 400ish years later. Your argument is "Yeah but what good does it do us the nation will die anyway."

I will happily pursue policies that will cause this nation to fall apart in 500 years when the alternative is falling apart now. If you want an eternal kingdom you'll have to wait until Christ returns. Until then nations are like humans they rise, grow strong, then plateau, and then become degenerate and decay and wither and fall.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Exactly how many of these "core voters" do you think there are in America? You call it cucking to foreign minorities, I call it building strategic alliances because here is the thing. The way to win in American politics as a democracy is to have more numbers. white males that did not go to college are not that large of a constituency, whites did not keep up their numbers. So this isn't their country anymore it's the country of those who are able to build coalitions. If the right fails, then you can look and see white males will be called uneducated bumpkins and honestly if they keep thinking this nation belongs solely to them they deserve to lose their power then.

The things you're suggesting aren't likely to win in the first place.

For starters, you're banging the wrong drum. Racism is not a hot button issue for most Asian voters. They don't care about racism, and to the extent they do, it tends to be Koreans hate Japanese hate Chinese. They will not get up in arms over white vs. black racism, or even asian vs. black vs. white, and by and large asians support Affirmative Action. Even if it doesn't help asians, they're still in favor of it. Asians as a whole tend to favor large structured bureaucracies (see how often Manga and Manhua fantasy stories feature a DMV-like adventurers guild, a rigid hierarchy of gods that seems to work like an office, and every single evil creature is part of the same organized bureaucracy under a single Demon Lord),

So needless to say, alienating a core voter base in order to send a message about how affirmative action is racist to asian voters is crazypants. Further, the issues that asian voters do get interested in are, by and large, hard for conservatives to swing. They are overwhelmingly for gun control, f'rex, and will vote against anybody who supports gun rights. They tend to vote for tight government controls over the population, and limited rights and liberties. The exceptions tend to be expats from nations that actually experienced communism, most notable the Vietnamese, who have a better understanding of what that actually means.

So needless to say, alienating core voters to try to convince asians to vote more conservatively (except for the Vietnamese and company) is a complete waste of time and a sure loser strategy, by the time you've made all the compromises that would be needed to get them on board, you're already a far leftist party. If one did reach out to Asians, right now the best option would be to play on their desire for strong law enforcement and bang on the crime sprees in California and the riots caused by BLM. But racism? You're barking up the wrong tree there.

 

[Marduk]

Umm you are complaining about something that happened 400ish years later. Your argument is "Yeah but what good does it do us the nation will die anyway."

I will happily pursue policies that will cause this nation to fall apart in 500 years when the alternative is falling apart now. If you want an eternal kingdom you'll have to wait until Christ returns. Until then nations are like humans they rise, grow strong, then plateau, and then become degenerate and decay and wither and fall.

"Managed decline" is the "moderate left" doctrine for running the country. The US ideological right's goal, from what know, is to either sort this shit out or fail trying, they are uninterested in contributing to the "managed decline".
Also, 500 years? Things happened on the timescale when news and stories traveled by word of mouth at the speed of a horseman or sailing ship.
Now they travel at the speed of light. More like 50-100 years.

 

[Yinko]

I'm really amazed how much of a disingenuous piece of shit this King Arts guy is, especially since he's been around for a year and has a bunch of posts.

What makes me laugh a bit is that I was watching YouTube videos about the Islamic Hadiths tonight as comedy material while getting drunk. "Palms at the shoulders, fingers at the ears, no pinching of the lobes allowed", : "Right palm over left wrist, or right hand gripping left wrist, while across the middle-chest. Those are the only pre-prayer hand postures, all others are haram! Even if they are in-between the accepted two... Especially if they between the accepted two 🌚... I tried to find a 'squinty face' but failed and instead chose the most insulting emoji I could find for a Mohammedian, a black face...

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Islam.

Co-exist.

Do you see where you went wrong?

I actually have a surprising amount of respect for Islamic culture and its tenacity, but I know they will never quite be our friends.

 

[King Arts]

I'm really amazed how much of a disingenuous piece of shit this King Arts guy is, especially since he's been around for a year and has a bunch of posts.

What makes me laugh a bit is that I was watching YouTube videos about the Islamic Hadiths tonight as comedy material while getting drunk. "Palms at the shoulders, fingers at the ears, no pinching of the lobes allowed", : "Right palm over left wrist, or right hand gripping left wrist, while across the middle-chest. Those are the only pre-prayer hand postures, all others are haram! Even if they are in-between the accepted two... Especially if they between the accepted two 🌚... I tried to find a 'squinty face' but failed and instead chose the most insulting emoji I could find for a Mohammedian, a black face...

Disingenuous piece of shit maybe you should look into a mirror. All you did is show that Islam is an autistic religion, which isn’t relevant.

 

[King Arts]

The things you're suggesting aren't likely to win in the first place.

For starters, you're banging the wrong drum. Racism is not a hot button issue for most Asian voters. They don't care about racism, and to the extent they do, it tends to be Koreans hate Japanese hate Chinese. They will not get up in arms over white vs. black racism, or even asian vs. black vs. white, and by and large asians support Affirmative Action. Even if it doesn't help asians, they're still in favor of it. Asians as a whole tend to favor large structured bureaucracies (see how often Manga and Manhua fantasy stories feature a DMV-like adventurers guild, a rigid hierarchy of gods that seems to work like an office, and every single evil creature is part of the same organized bureaucracy under a single Demon Lord),

So needless to say, alienating a core voter base in order to send a message about how affirmative action is racist to asian voters is crazypants. Further, the issues that asian voters do get interested in are, by and large, hard for conservatives to swing. They are overwhelmingly for gun control, f'rex, and will vote against anybody who supports gun rights. They tend to vote for tight government controls over the population, and limited rights and liberties. The exceptions tend to be expats from nations that actually experienced communism, most notable the Vietnamese, who have a better understanding of what that actually means.

So needless to say, alienating core voters to try to convince asians to vote more conservatively (except for the Vietnamese and company) is a complete waste of time and a sure loser strategy, by the time you've made all the compromises that would be needed to get them on board, you're already a far leftist party. If one did reach out to Asians, right now the best option would be to play on their desire for strong law enforcement and bang on the crime sprees in California and the riots caused by BLM. But racism? You're barking up the wrong tree there.

Thank you this I feel is the best argument against what I’m advocating though I am sad to hear it. Do Asians truly support affirmative action? Why they don’t have a culture of charity because of Christianity. I already knew that Asians support big government that was something that we could compromise on probably, and they in turn would have to compromise and stop supporting gun control. I know that the Asians have racial issues among themselves Korean ve Chinese ve Japanese not including all the others but I thought they would have had problems with blacks because of crime against them and the whole blm riots.

 

[Cherico]

Islam.

Co-exist.

Do you see where you went wrong?

I actually have a surprising amount of respect for Islamic culture and its tenacity, but I know they will never quite be our friends.

Islam as a religion managed to get the Hindu's and the Buddists to get so angry that they have anti islamic pogroms. When two of the most structurally chill religions on the planet do that to you, you know you have fucked up.

 

[ShieldWife]

Conservatives can’t win by giving more bribes to minorities than leftists, because the leftists will then give any more. You can’t beat them at your own game, trying to do so just eliminates all choices and makes both parties into leftists. When politics involves offering different minority groups bribes or appealing to policies that are catered to them, then they aren’t just minorities anymore, they are nations apart at odds with other nations within an empire. That is the end of democracy, because people stop caring about issues (like freedoms, rights, beneficial economic or foreign policies) and just getting the most for their group.

To go back to the case of Sweden and Islamic immigrants. Leftist Swedes are still Swedes. Muslim immigrants are forever foreigners even if they learn Swedish and have sheets of paper that says “citizen” on them. Not just foreigners, but invaders there to force their ideology on Sweden and to take a share of Swedish prosperity for themselves.

The best way for Islam to coexist with the West is in their own respective nations. Good fences make good neighbors.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Thank you this I feel is the best argument against what I’m advocating though I am sad to hear it. Do Asians truly support affirmative action? Why they don’t have a culture of charity because of Christianity. I already knew that Asians support big government that was something that we could compromise on probably, and they in turn would have to compromise and stop supporting gun control. I know that the Asians have racial issues among themselves Korean ve Chinese ve Japanese not including all the others but I thought they would have had problems with blacks because of crime against them and the whole blm riots.

Asian cultures have a very strong "Go along with the current authoritarian regime" mentality. As a general stereotype, they prefer to agree and not cause a confrontation with anyone, especially anyone in authority. Bear in mind like any stereotype, there's exceptions and asians are not a monolith, they're a number of cultures that do have different strategies, desires, and reactions.

That said, they tend to display their disfavor via absolutely staggering levels of passive aggression and malicious compliance instead of voting. The Japanese in particular have raised malicious compliance to an art form.

The entire association of Japanese porn with tentacle monsters? That was malicious compliance with anti-porn laws. The loli stuff too, that was done as an F-you to American busybodies passing morality laws the Japanese didn't want during the reconstruction, and Japan's subsequent efforts to subvert the law while technically complying.

Japan has like seventy-dozen playing card systems as a result of decades of malicious compliance with laws against western-style gambling, because it turns out they really liked cards so every time cards got banned, they'd find a loophole somewhere in the law and create an entirely new card system that took advantage of the loophole.

Japanese playing cards of western origin

cards.old.no

Similarly, when anti-asian tactics showed up in schools to get black students advantaged over them, the asian community didn't vote, they maliciously complied. F'rex one such law limited honors, scholarships, and the like per school, distributing more of them to predominantly black schools and removing them from predominantly asian schools, since they couldn't actually write a law giving the bennies directly to black students. The asians didn't vote against the ruling, instead a week later those schools suddenly had an avalanche of high-performance asian students enrolling in their super-poor black schools and scooping up all the scholarships.

So any effort to court the Asian vote needs to take this into account and realize that because Asians have a preference for powerful, organized, and authoritarian governments, getting them not to vote Democrat is an uphill battle. The strategy of choice instead should be to encourage situations where they will maliciously comply and subvert the laws they don't like.