Invasion of Poland 1939

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist

The History and War Blog did an Outstanding Four Part Series on the Invasion of Poland beginning in 1939.

Part 1: The Attack on Poland 1-17 September
Part 2: Soviet Invasion and the Fall of Poland
Part 3: The Exodus
Part 4: The Aftermath



Also as a cool supplement, Jeff over at The Inch High Guy Blog has a really great post:
Invasion of Poland, 1939 Color Photographs, Hugo Jaeger Collection, Part I.



For further reading and study I recommend the book:
Case White, the Invasion of Poland 1939


And something more fun:
 
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ATP

Well-known member




And something more fun:

Well,they certainly have good intentions,but:
1.Poland had 36 medium bombers,not 154.Rest was light bombers.
2.Polish air forces was not defeated bu german planes,but tanks.
When they retreatet from one hidden airfield to another they discovered,that there were not fuel and ammo there yet,becouse nobody expected germans advance so fast.
So,planes still existed - but without fuel,ammo and bombs.And eventually was abadonned on airfield or send to Romania.

3.In Bydgoszcz polish forces executed less then 200 germans catched with rifles.
Germans later murdered more then 5000 of polish cyvilians,mostly just for being poles,not fighting.

But,at least they told truth about german lies about ulans charging tanks.
 

Buba

A total creep
Never forget that Poland, assailed on all sides, held out longer than cowardly France.
That's a Polish chest-thumping myth combined with "cheese eating surrender monkeys" meme.
Poland lost the campaign inside the first week (thank you Rydz-Śmigły), the Government fled the capital on 7.IX, the Polish army was destroyed by end of third week, with minor moping up operations for the next ten days or so. The Government fled abroad on 17.IX.
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Poland lost the campaign inside the first wee
It lost militarily but won politically. Another thing is that Poland had already lost in 1938 after Munich, before there was a chance to put up effective resistance. But after what happened later with Czechoslovakia, it took a miracle to win it.

At the same time, although we lost militarily, yes Germany lost politically, we realized our intentions. This is to maintain the fact that the war was fought for the whole, no second Munich, the war turned into a world war, and the Polish army was destroyed beyond the Vistula, not in front.

Hitler wanted a quick, one-on-one war. Fortunately, he miscalculated, and got a world war right away. And this one he could no longer win.

thank you Rydz-Śmigły
He could be and damn Napoleon, Alexander of Macedon and Hannibal all in one, and he still wouldn't win. With what it was, in order to win all Polish officers, NCOs and privates would have had to act flawlessly, and the Germans would have made more mistakes than they did.

Blaming everything on Rydz is an easy thing to do, the problem is that if you put someone else then the only thing that could have been achieved is the extension of the defense, and even that is not certain. Rydz did what he could, and the fact that he was a tactician in the place of a strategist obviously made it difficult for him to be Commander-in-Chief. Many other "marshals" also got a beating from the Germans, the problem is that each of them got a second chance, and Rydz did not.


the Government fled the capital on 7.IX
Here I'll agree, this decicion turned out to be wrong. The problem is that the government found out about it post-factum. And as I mentioned to win, we had to be flawless and that is physically impossible for any human being.
he Polish army was destroyed by end of third week
In the fourth, don't overdo it. The army then was shattered, but not destroyed, and not even all of it but part of it.
with minor moping up operations for the next ten days or so
Yeah:rolleyes:
The Government fled abroad on 17.IX.
And what was he supposed to do? Wait politely to get caught? Yes, he should have done so much later, but in the end he had to retreat abroad.
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Never forget that Poland, assailed on all sides, held out longer than cowardly France.
Not so much cowardly, but the French as well as the Poles were outmaneuvered. At the same time it should be noted that with France it is mainly the fault of the Belgians that they idiotically declared neutrality, forgetting that the Germans had already disrespected it. Thus, the entire French plan went awry, which was exploited by the Germans, who easily cut off the main core of the French army, although it was problematic for the Germans to hit this core.

We, on the other hand, were in the ass thanks to the Allies giving way, thanks to them we were surrounded by the Germans, which obviously made it impossible for us to defend ourselves. We were forced to stretch our forces by making them extremely thin.

I don't remember how many, but we fielded fewer troops for every kilometer than the Germans, and significantly less.
 

Buba

A total creep
Yes, he should have done so much later, but in the end he had to retreat abroad.
Yes, he should had crossed the bridge the moment the Soviets showed up at the outskirts of the town.
But ideally he should had committed seppuku. He was the main mover of the ruling junta and it was his statesmanship that had led to this.
The September campaign was unwinnable militarily and should not had been fought.
 
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Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
But ideally he should had committed seppuku
And what good would it do?
and it was his statesmanship that had led to this.
Yes, because he controlled the whole world and everyone acted as he wanted. Not at all the current situation was the sum total of the resultant actions of other people and himself.

Remember the saying, one plays as the opponent allows?

In this situation, there were no good decisions, only bad and worse ones, but which ones were such, he did not know. We know, but thanks to the fact that he made them.
 

Buba

A total creep
How? Germany had designs on conquering Poland as far back as 1919.
Entire books/multi page threads on internet forums on the subject :), the latter mostly in Polish, though.
"Germany" - or its body politic - is not a monolith. Just like "only Nixon could go to Peking", "only Hitler could recognise the border with Poland". Early Hitler was reasonably friendly ...
Very briefly and simplicisticaly - join the Anticomitern Pact and ditch the French alliance. And wait for better times. But Polish tradition is different - piss upwind and be surprised at the outcome.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Never forget that Poland, assailed on all sides, held out longer than cowardly France.
And cowardly France was mostly not occupied.They saved their nation and colonies.We was brave - and lost everything.
Something it better to be coward.

P.S i read memories of soldier of polish 10th motorized brigade which detachment fought in 1940 - only they,senegal troops,arab calvary and 2 dyvisions from Normandy fought.All other run without fight.
Cowardly? yes,but they saved their country.

Yes, he should had crossed the bridge the moment the Soviets showed up at the outskirts of the town.
But ideally he should had committed seppuku. He was the main mover of the ruling junta and it was his statesmanship that had led to this.
The September campaign was unwinnable militarily and should not had been fought.

He should remain in Lwów and die there fighting soviets.After declaring war on them.But he sit on border,when he had no communication with his armies and could not command even if he wanted to.

And he could lost longer - there was plan to fight german better.He do not use that.

And what good would it do?

Yes, because he controlled the whole world and everyone acted as he wanted. Not at all the current situation was the sum total of the resultant actions of other people and himself.

Remember the saying, one plays as the opponent allows?

In this situation, there were no good decisions, only bad and worse ones, but which ones were such, he did not know. We know, but thanks to the fact that he made them.

Indeed,he should command better and die fighting.
Agree,in 1939 we could capitulate to one genocider,capitulate to another,or die fighting.It was right decision - but,we could fight longer.3-6 months,i think.

Entire books/multi page threads on internet forums on the subject :), the latter mostly in Polish, though.
"Germany" - or its body politic - is not a monolith. Just like "only Nixon could go to Peking", "only Hitler could recognise the border with Poland". Early Hitler was reasonably friendly ...
Very briefly and simplicisticaly - join the Anticomitern Pact and ditch the French alliance. And wait for better times. But Polish tradition is different - piss upwind and be surprised at the outcome.

Theorically possible,practically...Hitler was still socialist and would destroy our economy.And,even more,mad with occult.In 1939 he claimed to meet envoy from Agharta/city of demons in Asia/
You could not made deals with madmans.Even if they like you.
 

Buba

A total creep
P.S i read memories of soldier of polish 10th motorized brigade which detachment fought in 1940 - only they,senegal troops,arab calvary and 2 dyvisions from Normandy fought.All other run without fight.
Cowardly? yes,but they saved their country.
Many examples of desertion and "runaway! runaway!" in Polish army in 1939.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Many examples of desertion and "runaway! runaway!" in Polish army in 1939.
True.But could not be compared to what happened in France to average french units.
Another difference - polish soldiers from destroyed units still keep their rifles.French soldiers abadonned them.
 

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