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In Defense of Hate

Aldarion

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Hate is nowadays universally reviled.

But the thing is, hate is not actually negative emotion. If you hate, it means that you care - generally, people only hate things that threaten what they love and respect. Lack of hate is far more problematic than its presence, because it denotes a mind that is apathetic, that has stopped caring. Love and hate are literally two sides of the same coin, and if one is erased then the other goes away as well.

So why is the Left so loud about hate? Sure, hate has caused many evils through history. But that is irrelevant to the Left - and their ideals of equality have caused far more evil than pure hate anyway. What matters is what was pointed out above: if you hate, you care. Passion is a strong weapon - with love and thus hate being exemplars of it. But the Left wants a monopoly on your mind, it wants you to care only about their own ideals, and to weaponize passion for their own goals while deniying it to their enemies. They are attempting - and actually had managed to - establish a monopoly on usage of hate. Hate is allowed, but only if it is targeted against things which Left itself hates.

Anti-hate and tolerance are thus themselves campaigns of hatred, aimed at disarming the opposition in preparation for destruction of things which said opposition is defending. Person who hates hatred is thus more of a danger than a person who merely hates, because he is ready to slaughter millions to achieve an unachievable ideal of world unity and peace.
 

Battlegrinder

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This sounds shaky. Yes, it's clear that when people on the left say they're "against hate" they mean they're against only certain kinds of hate, and I agree that if you hate something, you probably care about what it threatens a fair bit.

However, those are more or less side points, and I don't buy your central argument of that hate is necessary, that you can't love something without hating things that threaten it, etc. Hate is certainly an easy, natural reaction, but that's not the same as it being a good thing, or even a necessary evil.

Certainly in my experience and observation, the people that are the most hateful toward some ideology or enemy don't seem to be very effective at fighting it. We just spent the last several years watching the media and cultural centers produce an endless tide of hate directed at Trump, but....did that actually do anything useful? How many people saw that kind of unhinged behavior and went "huh, the screaming lunatic makes a pretty good point, Orange Man really is Bad?" I can't think of many.
 

Navarro

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This sounds shaky. Yes, it's clear that when people on the left say they're "against hate" they mean they're against only certain kinds of hate, and I agree that if you hate something, you probably care about what it threatens a fair bit.
It's less deep than that. All the phrase really connotates is social signalling by people on the left to other people on the left that they believe all the right things and follow whatever the party line is this day of the week. It's a shibboleth.
 

Battlegrinder

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It's less deep than that. All the phrase really connotates is social signalling by people on the left to other people on the left that they believe all the right things and follow whatever the party line is this day of the week. It's a shibboleth.
I'm not sure that's all it means, there are certainly some people that are genuinely motivated by a desire to stop certain forms of hateful conduct. But this claim, where Aldarion is going "You claim you're against hate, but I don't see you doing anything to stop hateful thing X, therefore this is really about power" does sound a lot like the sort of bad faith "you say you're pro life, but haven't done anything to stop capital punishment" gotchas you see used.

I don't think that's what Aldarion intended to do here, being "anti-hate" is a much wider claim than similar groupings so it's easy to misread what people are really saying, it's more accurately "anti-hate against the 'marginalized' members of my political tribe".
 

Abhorsen

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Anti-hate and tolerance are thus themselves campaigns of hatred, aimed at disarming the opposition in preparation for destruction of things which said opposition is defending. Person who hates hatred is thus more of a danger than a person who merely hates, because he is ready to slaughter millions to achieve an unachievable ideal of world unity and peace.
This part definitely doesn't follow either. Even if we accept as correct what you've said up to here, you still haven't shown that opposing hate is worse than hate. People who hate are also frequently willing to slaughter millions as well. Just because the left opposes it doesn't mean it's good.
 

Aldarion

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This sounds shaky. Yes, it's clear that when people on the left say they're "against hate" they mean they're against only certain kinds of hate, and I agree that if you hate something, you probably care about what it threatens a fair bit.

However, those are more or less side points, and I don't buy your central argument of that hate is necessary, that you can't love something without hating things that threaten it, etc. Hate is certainly an easy, natural reaction, but that's not the same as it being a good thing, or even a necessary evil.

Certainly in my experience and observation, the people that are the most hateful toward some ideology or enemy don't seem to be very effective at fighting it. We just spent the last several years watching the media and cultural centers produce an endless tide of hate directed at Trump, but....did that actually do anything useful? How many people saw that kind of unhinged behavior and went "huh, the screaming lunatic makes a pretty good point, Orange Man really is Bad?" I can't think of many.
That comes down to the fact that emotions have to be managed, I think. You are making a mistake of only looking at raw, unfiltered hate. But fact is that large part of what makes the Left so powerful is precisely hate. Left hates with passion, which in turn helps provide them with motivation and consistency both, as well as the willingness to accept and utilize hypocrisy and other underhanded tactics. And as should be obvious by now, all of this is something that Right has not found an answer to. In fact, Left's actions cannot be explained except through massive hate boner they have for all things native and traditional. Yet they claim to be against hate. Why? I think it is because they are aware of what hate is and the power it gives them, and they are using "anti-hate" campaigns to make all but select expressions of hate socially unacceptable.

As for the rest... if you don't hate whatever threatens things that you love, can you really claim that you truly love? Emotions are hardly logical, and hate is a natural product of love.

This part definitely doesn't follow either. Even if we accept as correct what you've said up to here, you still haven't shown that opposing hate is worse than hate. People who hate are also frequently willing to slaughter millions as well. Just because the left opposes it doesn't mean it's good.
It mostly comes down to the fact that basically everybody who opposes hate is hypocritical. Also, if you pretend that something can be removed, you give up on managing it - which leads to it growing out of control.
 

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I disagree, @Aldarion hate is wholly negative and represents oneself being overcome by emotion. It is losing oneself and one's rational faculties to their passions and perhaps even the beast within. Hatred is an extreme, and not just that a vicious one. It is taking negative sentiment or feeling past the proper moderate (or whatever the proper amount is) and making into a pure vice. And yes passion is strong- which is why we must bridle it, and keep it from running rampant. And on the issue of hatred being caring, perhaps it is, but if it caring then it is caring in the wrong way. It is not caring in a way that will lead to anything constructive. I'd rather oppose my enemies out of love for justice, for the good, and beauty and all the lesser goods in this world than out of any negative feeling. I do not wish to be overcome, because I already have my own difficulties.

And I am going to echo others here, the left is only against hate when it is the wrong kind of hate. When it is the right, they are perfectly fine with it. For me there is no right hate, for the reasons I have stated above.

I am going to say that I am not sure I can really hate myself, since I seem to utterly lack the wiring. I still have the inclinations to detest, dislike, disdain and so on, but I cannot take it to an extreme. Or perhaps, I lack any malice towards other people, I never want to hurt people for the sake of hurting them.
 

ShieldWife

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I think the problem here is in adopting the left’s terminology rather than rejecting it. Actual hatred is bad. Sometimes anger can be good, sometimes taking action against people can be good, but hatred isn’t - as HA says above.

Though the left isn’t really against hate at all. When the left say “hate” they mean insufficient adoration of their protected demographics. If you say the wrong thing about women, non-whites, non-Christians, or alphabet soup, then that is “hate speech” regardless of whether or not someone on the right is expressing actual hatred, which they seldom are.

It is the left who far more often express true hatred, such as calling for the death of Nick Sandman, doxxing and destroying the lives and livelihoods of dissenters, or the epidemic of leftist violence exploding across the nation. We should not defend “hate” because the left call us haters, we should emphasize their dishonest manipulation of language and show how they are the ones who actually embrace and foster hatred.
 

Aldarion

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I think the problem here is in adopting the left’s terminology rather than rejecting it. Actual hatred is bad. Sometimes anger can be good, sometimes taking action against people can be good, but hatred isn’t - as HA says above.

Though the left isn’t really against hate at all. When the left say “hate” they mean insufficient adoration of their protected demographics. If you say the wrong thing about women, non-whites, non-Christians, or alphabet soup, then that is “hate speech” regardless of whether or not someone on the right is expressing actual hatred, which they seldom are.

It is the left who far more often express true hatred, such as calling for the death of Nick Sandman, doxxing and destroying the lives and livelihoods of dissenters, or the epidemic of leftist violence exploding across the nation. We should not defend “hate” because the left call us haters, we should emphasize their dishonest manipulation of language and show how they are the ones who actually embrace and foster hatred.
And how then do you deal with advantage in motivation that hatred gives to the Left?
 

Hlaalu Agent

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I think the problem here is in adopting the left’s terminology rather than rejecting it. Actual hatred is bad. Sometimes anger can be good, sometimes taking action against people can be good, but hatred isn’t - as HA says above.

Though the left isn’t really against hate at all. When the left say “hate” they mean insufficient adoration of their protected demographics. If you say the wrong thing about women, non-whites, non-Christians, or alphabet soup, then that is “hate speech” regardless of whether or not someone on the right is expressing actual hatred, which they seldom are.

It is the left who far more often express true hatred, such as calling for the death of Nick Sandman, doxxing and destroying the lives and livelihoods of dissenters, or the epidemic of leftist violence exploding across the nation. We should not defend “hate” because the left call us haters, we should emphasize their dishonest manipulation of language and show how they are the ones who actually embrace and foster hatred.
I very much agree my friend, and this goes hand in hand with what I have said. But given your reaction, you seem to have realized this already. Combine what we have both said about hate, and I think it creates the whole picture they dislike hate against the wrong targets and love hate against the right targets, in addition to declaring not following their ideological dictates hate. As we both said, they are the ones that peddle in hate- and we should not stoop to their level. In a sense we must fight them with love, and I do not mean in the sappy sense. But in the sense of love of the good, and brotherly love. And one way of doing this is to point out that they are what they claim to oppose- to declare the truth, even though others may flee from it.

And how then do you deal with advantage in motivation that hatred gives to the Left?
As I have said, we deploy love. Love of the good. Love of the truth. Love of justice. Love of your fellow man. The purest and most essential love- the most powerful form. The form that enables men to move mountains, and inspires them- even through adversity to reach for the stars.
 

Cherico

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I don't think its possible to get rid of hate and I don't think it would be a good idea to remove it from humanity entirely. Just like I don't think its a good idea to get rid of revenge and vengence.


Some people go around fucking with every one around them, sometimes its just because their assholes, sometimes its envy, some times their own self rightousness makes them go out and start shit, and some people are deliberate fuck ups. Hate and revenge installs a conquence for being an Asshole.

If you go around being an absolute dick to every one you meet you will make enemies, these enemies will in turn make your life hell. Ideally you learn from this and become less of a dick, if you go too far in your dickishness that increases the probality of some one saying fuck it and ending your life.

In an ideal world hate would be a personal thing you and your enemy hate each other and don't involve other people in your private feud, it is unfortant that the world is not an ideal place.
 

PsihoKekec

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You need to love somebody/something and you need to hate somebody/something. It's always been this way, but some people have the urge to pretend otherwise.
 

Arlos

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I think the very premise of trying to scratch out a human emotion from society is an incredibly abhorrent and vile idea.
No amount of social engineering will make it go away, no matter how heavy handed you are, that leave things like lobotomy, Brain chemistry altering drugs and just killing every offender as they appears to make it stick.

As for the left idea of « Hate », it’s spliced with so much others stuff that has nothing to do with the emotion(except maybe that they put everything they themselves hate as « hateful »)that I think it deserve a new word. Probably should have one too, so they stop using culture induced emotional trigger to their advantages.
 

Battlegrinder

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In fact, Left's actions cannot be explained except through massive hate boner they have for all things native and traditional.
I doubt that's true. You're lumping a massive range of ideologies under one banner and ascribing motivation to all of them as if they were united by common logic rather than politics and strength in numbers, which is a really, really shaky premise.

Yet they claim to be against hate. Why? I think it is because they are aware of what hate is and the power it gives them, and they are using "anti-hate" campaigns to make all but select expressions of hate socially unacceptable.
Again, I think you've got it backwards. It's not that they oppose hate unless it's targeting the right, it's that they oppose hate only when it's targeting them, as you can see by looking at how the
y react, or don't react, to hate when directed at apolitical targets. Most people hate sexual predators and the like, and there's no movement to change that or oppose that hate, for example.

As for the rest... if you don't hate whatever threatens things that you love, can you really claim that you truly love? Emotions are hardly logical, and hate is a natural product of love.
I don't believe that's true at all.
 

DocSolarisReich

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OP is correct. If you claim to love a thing, but do not hate and despise that which threatens the thing, you are shown to be a liar and unjust.

“He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral. Why? Because anger looks to the good of justice. And if you can live amid injustice without anger, you are immoral as well as unjust.”
~ Thomas Aquinas

“He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins. For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but the good to do wrong.”
~ John Chrysostom

Remember, Our Lord also hates.

16 Six things there are, which the Lord hateth, and the seventh his soul detesteth:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that deviseth wicked plots, feet that are swift to run into mischief,
19 A deceitful witness that uttereth lies, and him that soweth discord among brethren.
 

Battlegrinder

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I think the very premise of trying to scratch out a human emotion from society is an incredibly abhorrent and vile idea.
No amount of social engineering will make it go away, no matter how heavy handed you are, that leave things like lobotomy, Brain chemistry altering drugs and just killing every offender as they appears to make it stick.
I don't think anyone's suggested doing that, there's a fairly wide middle ground between "woo-hoo, hate is awesome!" and "this man is guilty of hate think! Bailiff, take him to the mind scrubber!"

Think of societies or cultures that do take explict stances on hate as a concept, religions must come to mind. The Christian stance is generally "resist the desire to hate your fellow man, and embrace him as your brother instead", acknowledging hate as something we will always struggle with and calling for us to resist it.


Thomas Aquinas
John Chrysostom
That's anger, not hate.

Remember, Our Lord also hates.
That's God, not us. We are called to obey God, not emulate him, and the gospel is very clear when it comes to what that means regarding our treatment of our fellow man.

It's also from proverbs, IE the old testament, not the new.
 

Aldarion

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I doubt that's true. You're lumping a massive range of ideologies under one banner and ascribing motivation to all of them as if they were united by common logic rather than politics and strength in numbers, which is a really, really shaky premise.
Modern Left is predominantly if not exclusively based on Marxism. And if you look through Marxism, it is indeed based on hate.

Again, I think you've got it backwards. It's not that they oppose hate unless it's targeting the right, it's that they oppose hate only when it's targeting them, as you can see by looking at how the
y react, or don't react, to hate when directed at apolitical targets. Most people hate sexual predators and the like, and there's no movement to change that or oppose that hate, for example.
That is probably true, but I do not think it necessarily contradicts what I wrote. Left certainly is using hate and various interpretations of hate as a weapon.

I don't believe that's true at all.
Why not?
 

DocSolarisReich

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That's God, not us. We are called to obey God, not emulate him, and the gospel is very clear when it comes to what that means regarding our treatment of our fellow man.
48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are explicitly told to emulate God in everything. There is nothing wrong with hate as long as it is justified and under control of the rational faculty.
 

Battlegrinder

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And if you look through Marxism, it is indeed based on hate.
I'd say it's more based on envy than hate.

I don't thibk that hate is a part of love or that it the two are inextricably linked.

48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are explicitly told to emulate God in everything. There is nothing wrong with hate as long as it is justified and under control of the rational faculty.
That's taking that verse grossly out of context. The full passage says

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
That is nearly the exact opposite of your claim, there is an explict command to love one's enemies and persecutors, not to judge and hate them. Jesus explictly states that the right to judge the sins and actions of other belongs to God alone (Matthew 7).
 
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