Importance of Subsidiarity

[Aldarion]

Importance of Subsidiarity

Introduction Subsidiarity is the principle which holds that issues should be solved at the most local or immediate level that is consistent with their resolution. Oxford lexicon defines it as &#822…

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Introduction

Subsidiarity is the principle which holds that issues should be solved at the most local or immediate level that is consistent with their resolution. Oxford lexicon defines it as “the principle that a central authority should have a subsidiary function, performing only those tasks which cannot be performed at a more local level”.

 

[Simonbob]

Subsidiarity is the principle which holds that issues should be solved at the most local or immediate level that is consistent with their resolution. Oxford lexicon defines it as “the principle that a central authority should have a subsidiary function, performing only those tasks which cannot be performed at a more local level”.

Yes. The closer it is to those affected, the better it's likely to go, over all.


On the other hand, local councils in Sydney, Australia, are toxic as hell. But, much of that is a lack of involovment of non-loonies, and some really insane State law.


Really, why should the council have any say on what somebody builds on their own land, anyway? Town planning is the worst.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Really, why should the council have any say on what somebody builds on their own land, anyway? Town planning is the worst.

Mostly because it affects everybody else around you. If you put in a leather tannery or hog farm it's not just your business, all your neighbors get to enjoy the lovely smells. If you build a complete eyesore everybody else's property values are affected and they have to look at it every day.

It's called externalities. The laws of physics don't care where property lines are and the effects of what you build extend over said artificial lines.

 

[Simonbob]

Mostly because it affects everybody else around you. If you put in a leather tannery or hog farm it's not just your business, all your neighbors get to enjoy the lovely smells. If you build a complete eyesore everybody else's property values are affected and they have to look at it every day.

It's called externalities. The laws of physics don't care where property lines are and the effects of what you build extend over said artificial lines.

While that's true, that should be between the owners in question.

Because, when we let the Gov take that position, they slowly but surely, used it to screw everybody in Sydney.

 

[Bear Ribs]

While that's true, that should be between the owners in question.

Because, when we let the Gov take that position, they slowly but surely, used it to screw everybody in Sydney.

Well I'm not entirely sure how that would work... what kind of system, not involving government in any way, do you see working if, say, your next-door neighbor decides to work on five cars on blocks in his front yard and oil and filth from his operations is running into your yard, staining your porch, and poisoning your lawn? Oh, and he's working on the engines running his compressor at 3AM because it's cooler then and he doesn't want to work in the heat of the day, so you're getting no sleep.

 

[Simonbob]

Well I'm not entirely sure how that would work... what kind of system, not involving government in any way, do you see working if, say, your next-door neighbor decides to work on five cars on blocks in his front yard and oil and filth from his operations is running into your yard, staining your porch, and poisoning your lawn? Oh, and he's working on the engines running his compressor at 3AM because it's cooler then and he doesn't want to work in the heat of the day, so you're getting no sleep.

Generally, the 'Libertarian' answer is "A lawsuit.".

Slightly less flippant, there'll be arguments, sure. Occasional fights, even.


Compare and contrast, with how it is in Sydney right now. The Reserve Bank of Australia did a study on Town Planning, and Sydney was slightly above average for Australia.

That boiled down to, on average, it taking 19 months and 200 thousand dollars to get through Town Planning. Per resedence. That includes apartments, where there are single Approvals that cover over 2 thousand apartments.


A fight between neighbours could include a lot of problems, and even, on vary rare occasions, end up in deaths. It, however, cannot cripple the ability of quite literaly millions of Australians to ever own their own place. Or build a new factory, because getting a commercial Plan through is much harder than something the planners like. (Want a cafe? Sure, only a year or so, might cost 50 grand! Want to make car parts? Nowhere in Australia. Nowhere.)



Besides, we're just talking Council level, at the moment. There's still the zoning system at the State level. Fixing 5 cars? Call him a mechanic, wrong area.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Generally, the 'Libertarian' answer is "A lawsuit.".

Slightly less flippant, there'll be arguments, sure. Occasional fights, even.


Compare and contrast, with how it is in Sydney right now. The Reserve Bank of Australia did a study on Town Planning, and Sydney was slightly above average for Australia.

That boiled down to, on average, it taking 19 months and 200 thousand dollars to get through Town Planning. Per resedence. That includes apartments, where there are single Approvals that cover over 2 thousand apartments.


A fight between neighbours could include a lot of problems, and even, on vary rare occasions, end up in deaths. It, however, cannot cripple the ability of quite literaly millions of Australians to ever own their own place. Or build a new factory, because getting a commercial Plan through is much harder than something the planners like. (Want a cafe? Sure, only a year or so, might cost 50 grand! Want to make car parts? Nowhere in Australia. Nowhere.)



Besides, we're just talking Council level, at the moment. There's still the zoning system at the State level. Fixing 5 cars? Call him a mechanic, wrong area.

I'll agree that regulations and councils usually go way too far. They are often monied interests who, once in power, immediately begin using the law to eliminate the competition. It's a problem for every legal system.

However, I think you're severely misunderestimating how many people have been historically killed over such things. Fifty killed in the Hatfield-McCoy feud started over a single freaking pig. Thirty-five killed in the Sutton-Taylor feud. The Lincoln County War involved about seventy casualties and started with an argument over an insurance policy disbursement. Across history, the number of people killed in these petty feuds is extremely high and these things have ballooned into no small number of wars. It's not an "occasional" thing historically, tight controls on this kind of thing are responsible for a lot of peace.

 

[Simonbob]

I'll agree that regulations and councils usually go way too far. They are often monied interests who, once in power, immediately begin using the law to eliminate the competition. It's a problem for every legal system.

However, I think you're severely misunderestimating how many people have been historically killed over such things. Fifty killed in the Hatfield-McCoy feud started over a single freaking pig. Thirty-five killed in the Sutton-Taylor feud. The Lincoln County War involved about seventy casualties and started with an argument over an insurance policy disbursement. Across history, the number of people killed in these petty feuds is extremely high and these things have ballooned into no small number of wars. It's not an "occasional" thing historically, tight controls on this kind of thing are responsible for a lot of peace.

I'm not sure of the details, not on that basis. Frankly, what I'd like, is a setup is the council would step in- The moment they're asked. They're not part of the picture until a party bring them in.

99% of the time, they're a active hinderance, at best. Massive costs, time and effort for often zero reward. A part of the reason why you can't run any sort of real industry in Australia.

Heck, I once had the chance to chat with the Marrickville Council lawyer. One of the things he said? 95% of his time was spent on Town Planning related legal challenges. 95%. He was full time, with a number of assistants.




With the Covid Shutdown killing our economy, and transport screwed, we're going to have to break this shit. Have to, or soon all sorts of things are going to get impossible to get. Prices are already high, and a number of things aren't avalible at all.

We could make them. Set up factories, produce all sorts of things. But, the Govenment will not let us, not on the local level, not on the state level, and not at the federal level. And, that means we're screwed.


Man, it's like they want a revolution.