How would a mid-20th century war between a non-Communist Russia and Britain in order to liberate British India look like?

stevep

Well-known member
Paratroopers, as with the Nazis in Crete in 1941?

Paratroopers are relatively light and limited in number. They can provide a surprise seizure of a small but key area provided that the defenders aren't ready for such an attack and the attackers have air superiority. Even then they need to hold on until ground forces - or possibly naval if on a coastline - can reach them.

In a huge battleground like a Russian [attempted] invasion of India you would need either massive paradrops or an absolutely key area for them to be able to successfully take and then hold. It would need suitable terrain for a landing - definitely not mountain, forest or urban as the forces are likely to suffer horrendous losses even without any defensive fire. Also could Russia have air superiority over the landing area, especially if needing to hold for any length of time until supporting ground forces reach them?

Basically you would need some point the loss of which would mean the collapse of the defence which is within range of Russian airfields and in which paradrops could occur. I think given the ground and size of the front its unlikely unless the defence was very fragile.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Paratroopers are relatively light and limited in number. They can provide a surprise seizure of a small but key area provided that the defenders aren't ready for such an attack and the attackers have air superiority. Even then they need to hold on until ground forces - or possibly naval if on a coastline - can reach them.

In a huge battleground like a Russian [attempted] invasion of India you would need either massive paradrops or an absolutely key area for them to be able to successfully take and then hold. It would need suitable terrain for a landing - definitely not mountain, forest or urban as the forces are likely to suffer horrendous losses even without any defensive fire. Also could Russia have air superiority over the landing area, especially if needing to hold for any length of time until supporting ground forces reach them?

Basically you would need some point the loss of which would mean the collapse of the defence which is within range of Russian airfields and in which paradrops could occur. I think given the ground and size of the front its unlikely unless the defence was very fragile.

Excellent analysis, Steve!

Anyway, what about a more limited Russo-British partition of Afghanistan at the Hindu Kush?
 

stevep

Well-known member
Excellent analysis, Steve!

Anyway, what about a more limited Russo-British partition of Afghanistan at the Hindu Kush?

It might be a possibility but I suspect that both sides decided that they were better off with it being an albeit somewhat erratic and unstable buffer. Trying to control part or all of it would be a real issue, as Britain had discovered the hard way and is going to result in tension along the common border that results.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
It might be a possibility but I suspect that both sides decided that they were better off with it being an albeit somewhat erratic and unstable buffer. Trying to control part or all of it would be a real issue, as Britain had discovered the hard way and is going to result in tension along the common border that results.

That makes sense. The only exception might be if Afghanistan enters WWI on the CP side and Russia actually survives WWI and avoids Bolshevization, correct?

Also, off-topic, but what about a non-Communist Russia fighting Japan in the 1930s or 1940s in order to liberate both China and Korea from Japanese imperialism? Is that plausible?
 

stevep

Well-known member
That makes sense. The only exception might be if Afghanistan enters WWI on the CP side and Russia actually survives WWI and avoids Bolshevization, correct?

Also, off-topic, but what about a non-Communist Russia fighting Japan in the 1930s or 1940s in order to liberate both China and Korea from Japanese imperialism? Is that plausible?

In the latter case its plausible although less to liberate those regions and more to bring them under Russian influence. Probably seeking to bring Korea and Manchuria under at least indirect control. It depends on what form of government Russia has of course as to their exact aims but its always likely to be rivals with Japan.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
In the latter case its plausible although less to liberate those regions and more to bring them under Russian influence. Probably seeking to bring Korea and Manchuria under at least indirect control. It depends on what form of government Russia has of course as to their exact aims but its always likely to be rivals with Japan.

Why stop with Korea and Manchuria and not kick Japan out of all of China?
 

stevep

Well-known member
Why stop with Korea and Manchuria and not kick Japan out of all of China?

Ah sorry, possibly I wasn't clear. I would expect that Japan was driven from China but that Russia wasn't seeking to directly control all of it. It would be a huge task and likely to backfire in the long run. Because both the Chinese and most of the rest of the developed world would oppose this. You would be replacing Japan as the occupying by Russia which would presumably also have a need for large forces in Europe and possibly on its southern border so its going to be a big drain on resources.

However possibly the Russian leadership might decide that its a worthwhile thing to try but I suspect that they would come to regret it.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Ah sorry, possibly I wasn't clear. I would expect that Japan was driven from China but that Russia wasn't seeking to directly control all of it. It would be a huge task and likely to backfire in the long run. Because both the Chinese and most of the rest of the developed world would oppose this. You would be replacing Japan as the occupying by Russia which would presumably also have a need for large forces in Europe and possibly on its southern border so its going to be a big drain on resources.

However possibly the Russian leadership might decide that its a worthwhile thing to try but I suspect that they would come to regret it.

Installing a Chinese puppet/client regime seems like a better option for Russia, no?
 

stevep

Well-known member
Installing a Chinese puppet/client regime seems like a better option for Russia, no?

Better than direct control but depending on how naked that control is its likely to be unpopular in China and any such level of Russian influence is going to be unpopular with the rest of the developed world. For instance how much freedom to trade would Britain, US, France etc have to trade in China and what would happen to the assorted enclaves, especially the International Settlement in Shanghai.
 

TheRomanSlayer

Unipolarists are the New Subhumans
Subhash Chandra Bose would certainly benefit a lot from his potential interaction with a non-communist Russia, if he still chose to push for Indian independence. Unlike OTL, where he was influential in the creation of the Free Indian Legion (an Indian volunteer unit that was created by the Germans) and the Indian National Army (an Indian volunteer unit that was created by the Japanese), here I would suspect that Bose would have his own army formed with Russian support. Additionally, unlike OTL where the Germans ignored Bose until the invasion of the USSR, the non-communist Russian government would be more enthusiastic with hearing Bose out.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Subhash Chandra Bose would certainly benefit a lot from his potential interaction with a non-communist Russia, if he still chose to push for Indian independence. Unlike OTL, where he was influential in the creation of the Free Indian Legion (an Indian volunteer unit that was created by the Germans) and the Indian National Army (an Indian volunteer unit that was created by the Japanese), here I would suspect that Bose would have his own army formed with Russian support. Additionally, unlike OTL where the Germans ignored Bose until the invasion of the USSR, the non-communist Russian government would be more enthusiastic with hearing Bose out.

That makes sense. What kind of arrangement did Bose want for India? A federal one?
 

TheRomanSlayer

Unipolarists are the New Subhumans
That makes sense. What kind of arrangement did Bose want for India? A federal one?
Unsure though, although he created the title of Netaji, or the Indian equivalent of Fuhrer, and wanted to introduce significant reforms to India, had he taken power.

If Bose had been in power, partition might have potentially been avoided.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Unsure though, although he created the title of Netaji, or the Indian equivalent of Fuhrer, and wanted to introduce significant reforms to India, had he taken power.

If Bose had been in power, partition might have potentially been avoided.

How would his relations with India's Muslim population have been?
 

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