How much of Star Wars galaxy could Guilliman conquer with his Legion?

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
Basically assuming the 500 worlds of Ultramar at the height of Great Crusade are transported to a border between known space and wild space in Star Wars galaxy.

There are four timelines:

1. Old Republic

2. The Galactic Republic a few years before The Phantom Menace.

3. Clone Wars

4. A couple of years before A New Hope.

Assume there is a subscenario for both Legends and Disney canon.

Assume Guilliman has his entire Ultramarines Legion with him, the 500 worlds all the manpower, industry, auxiliaries (including Imperial Army, Titan Legions, Imperialis Armada, etc...) and Space Marine recruits they can provide along with the fleets and shipyards needed.

Assume also that Macragge gets a copy of Astronomican that doesn't require The Emperor to operate. And also that Guilliman can choose to copy the Star Wars hyperdrives upon capture if he can manage said feat with his scientists.

Also assume the Warp in SW verse is much more calm than in 40k verse due to the state of the universe.

Assume also that 40k ships are high gigatons in calcs and SW low gigatons.

How large of a chunk of SW galaxy at its various points of history will Guilliman be able to carve for himself?
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
How large of a chunk of SW galaxy at its various points of history will Guilliman be able to carve for himself?

All of it, probably.

The old republic has been repeatedly pushed to brink by outside forces with a fraction of their resources, Ultramar is going to be a substantial increase compared to that.

TPM era republic is even weaker, having effectively no standing military and dependant on the Jedi to step in and resolve conflicts before force was required, and while groups like the trade federation have a lot more firepower on hand, it's in small numbers and they don't have the command structure the CIS did that would let them actually coordinate those forces, they're all on thier own.

Clone wars and Imperial era are probably the toughest fights since there's an actually effective military available to fight the marines, but it's either in the middle of a civil war or intentionally designed to be inefficient, which is a major downside that the 40k side will use against them. In both cases the Ultras can pretty easily devote substantial forces to overwhelming a key enemy target, while the Empire/Republic/CIS are too tied down defending everything to do the same.

The Imperials also have a few key tactical edges that can compensate for any numerical disadvantages, such as Nova cannons, which will be devastating to SW ships in the tight formations they favor, while the SW side doesn't really have a similar supply of that sort of tactical scale superweapon.



I weep for all the non-human species in the SW'verse. That's step one.

I'm not sure about that. The imperium's xenophobia is a reaction to humanity being under seige by aliens for thousands of years, and them responding by vowing to never again be at that disadvantage and to ensure that no other threat like that will ever emerge.

Take that history away, and I can see the Ultras taking a less harsh stance. They're not going to be best buddies with aliens, no, but I can seem them backing away from "kill everything" as the default.
 
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Buba

A total creep
Maybe the Old Republic will put up some resistance. The other three are curbstomped so fast that it isn't funny.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I think the Empire, under Palpatine's control, could cause some issues for them simply because of his ability to coordinate the Empire through his Force Powers.
 

ATP

Well-known member
I weep for all the non-human species in the SW'verse. That's step one.

When I get more time I'll address the specifics.

To made modern FTL,they need to copy hyperdrives.Mechanicus could refuse,and even if not,they would making it for 100 years or more.In that time Republic would knew everything about Girlyman.And massacres he committed on some aliens.

So,we would have war,with Republic initially defeated in each battle.But,once they start rearming,they would win or at least stop Ultramarines.

Becouse most here forget that technology is what winning wars,and as long as Mechanicus exist,IoM would stagnate.And lost to somebody who do not stagnate and have numbers on its side.

Being homicidal do not help against superior technology.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
He couldn't beat the Alliance, headed by the local equivalent of Hilary Clinton.
Note I didn't say he'd defeat them.

But, if you combine the SW ability for FTL comms, fast Hypertravel, and Palp's ability to coordinate through the Force, and you have a recipe for the SW forces to be able to concentrate forces against the Alliance. Because the ONLY FTL comms Ultramar has are ships travelling and the sometimes-vague sensations of the Psykers.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
To made modern FTL,they need to copy hyperdrives.Mechanicus could refuse,and even if not,they would making it for 100 years or more.In that time Republic would knew everything about Girlyman.And massacres he committed on some aliens.

So,we would have war,with Republic initially defeated in each battle.But,once they start rearming,they would win or at least stop Ultramarines.

Becouse most here forget that technology is what winning wars,and as long as Mechanicus exist,IoM would stagnate.And lost to somebody who do not stagnate and have numbers on its side.

Being homicidal do not help against superior technology.
This is prior to the Horus Heresy and the split in the mechanicum, with the loyalist faction becoming the mechanicus.
They were a lot less doctrinaire back then.

Furthermore, as per OP the Warp in the SW universe is much calmer, which menas that there are no chaos gods created by the War in Haven and all of the insane nonsense the Old Ones and the Space Elf degenerates pulled.

So, this version of the Warp might be even calmer than the one the WH40k humans had to deal with during the Dark Age of Technology.

In that case their Warp might actually be faster than even SW Hyperdrive.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Note I didn't say he'd defeat them.

But, if you combine the SW ability for FTL comms, fast Hypertravel, and Palp's ability to coordinate through the Force, and you have a recipe for the SW forces to be able to concentrate forces against the Alliance. Because the ONLY FTL comms Ultramar has are ships travelling and the sometimes-vague sensations of the Psykers.

Pskers can and do frequently send messages through the warp, Now if all these forces are in the SW galaxy their warp would be perfectly calm and not a nightmarish hellscape which would actually change a lot of things. For instance their ships would start moving a hell of lot faster possibly even faster than SW ships.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Why would the ships move faster?
Clean warp, very, very clean warp.
The "clean" warp that existed during the Dark Age of Technology was still full of crap brought about by the War in Haven and the various other crap the Old Ones and their loose warp-based biotech did for about a million years.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Clean warp, very, very clean warp.
The "clean" warp that existed during the Dark Age of Technology was still full of crap brought about by the War in Haven and the various other crap the Old Ones and their loose warp-based biotech did for about a million years.

The real question is does 40k factions showing up start fucking up the warp in the SW galaxy if thats the case then the Imperium will be the least of that galaxies problems.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Hmm...I'm thinking the Force would not interact with the Warp, but a large population that believes in the Force would likely create a Warp god of the Force...which would really be weird.
 

ATP

Well-known member
This is prior to the Horus Heresy and the split in the mechanicum, with the loyalist faction becoming the mechanicus.
They were a lot less doctrinaire back then.

Furthermore, as per OP the Warp in the SW universe is much calmer, which menas that there are no chaos gods created by the War in Haven and all of the insane nonsense the Old Ones and the Space Elf degenerates pulled.

So, this version of the Warp might be even calmer than the one the WH40k humans had to deal with during the Dark Age of Technology.

In that case their Warp might actually be faster than even SW Hyperdrive.

Then,instead of being stomped by Republic after they mobiize and start fighting for real,we would have stalemate.Becouse there is no possibility that anybody in SW galactic would support them willingly,even human supremacists.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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Unless you are jacking 40k through the roof, any conquest is basically on SW's sufferance.

The SW industrial and military base, in any of the listed time periods, is simply orders of magnitude beyond anything that the 40k forces can hope to match.

The invaders also have to contend with the Force. 40k precognition and general warp abilities are a joke next to what Force users wield until and unless you hit the extreme high end for 40k.

Unless a major Force power decides that it is in their interests to fuck with Force precognition then both the Jedi and the Sith are going to know about every attack, every warp transit, and every army movement essentially before it happens.

And girlyman, for all of his ability, will still die if the continent he is on gets glassed or the planet blown up. Will it happen the first time? Or the second? Or the third? No. But eventually he will prove himself enough of an annoyance for the SW factions to just resort to BDZ to remove him from the equation.

And lets not touch on what the real top tier Force talents can do if they decide to take issue. Those people can throw down on equal terms with the likes of Magnus while remaining "sane" and not having to deal with warp fuckery.

-x-x-x-
If Rowboat tries a traditional 40k conquest he is fucked because he will make enemies of everybody basically instantly. The avowed policy of putting all xenos to death really doesn't fly in SW.

If he tries to play nice and somehow avoids the massive rebellions he will face from his own forces, he still has to deal with being a hostile foreign power.

I mean seriously, Droids are AI and any attempt to not go total war against them will lose him, instantly, more than 99% of his mechanicum support.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Unless you are jacking 40k through the roof, any conquest is basically on SW's sufferance.

The SW industrial and military base, in any of the listed time periods, is simply orders of magnitude beyond anything that the 40k forces can hope to match.

The invaders also have to contend with the Force. 40k precognition and general warp abilities are a joke next to what Force users wield until and unless you hit the extreme high end for 40k.

Unless a major Force power decides that it is in their interests to fuck with Force precognition then both the Jedi and the Sith are going to know about every attack, every warp transit, and every army movement essentially before it happens.

And girlyman, for all of his ability, will still die if the continent he is on gets glassed or the planet blown up. Will it happen the first time? Or the second? Or the third? No. But eventually he will prove himself enough of an annoyance for the SW factions to just resort to BDZ to remove him from the equation.

And lets not touch on what the real top tier Force talents can do if they decide to take issue. Those people can throw down on equal terms with the likes of Magnus while remaining "sane" and not having to deal with warp fuckery.

-x-x-x-
If Rowboat tries a traditional 40k conquest he is fucked because he will make enemies of everybody basically instantly. The avowed policy of putting all xenos to death really doesn't fly in SW.

If he tries to play nice and somehow avoids the massive rebellions he will face from his own forces, he still has to deal with being a hostile foreign power.

I mean seriously, Droids are AI and any attempt to not go total war against them will lose him, instantly, more than 99% of his mechanicum support.
On screen troop counts do not back up that fact, and with the Disney acquisition most of the high end calcs for SW go out the window IMO, but we still have WH40K ships having ton for ton superiority.

Just compare the effects of the Mandator IV-class Siege Dreadnought with what your average Exterminatus fleet can do.
And 40k is at an actual disadvantage compared to 30k because of the Horus Heresy, the Scouring, and all of the other nasty crap that happened to the Imperium.

As to A.I. and droids, well, IMHO what the Mechanicus termed Abominable Intelligence was orders of magnitude more capable than any droid.

In fact I doubt that the average droids are much more capable than your average servo skull or other bits of tech the Machanicum used prior to the HH.

In fact half the Machanicum joining in on Horus's side is IMHO indicative of the fact that they were very unhappy with the dictates of Mars and the limitations put on them where various forms of research were concerned, and even among the Loyalists there were a fair few that wanted to dabble into forbidden knowledge, like Belisarius Cawl.

I mean, have you ever read any 40k material where at least one higher-up cogboy didn't want to say screw it and play around with A.I. or Necron tech?
 

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