Gun Political Issues Megathread. (Control for or Against?)

DarthOne

☦️
This is again why cops are not your friend and qualified immunity needs to die. More, we need a general law about cops killing citizens for any non-violent crime. It simply shouldn't happen. Cops shouldn't be able to do an arrest warrant on someone with a no-knock or similar if the person isn't accused of violence.

Yeah, and I’d like winning lottery numbers and a hot wife. Not going to happen any time soon. The system gets too much benefit from the way things are.
 

Abhorsen

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Yeah, and I’d like winning lottery numbers and a hot wife. Not going to happen any time soon. The system gets too much benefit from the way things are.
Qualified immunity has the greatest chance of actually dying. Sotomayor and Jackson will vote for it, maybe Kagan. Thomas has said he wants to revisit it, and he can likely pull in Gorsuch. Alito's a no, but maybe Kavanaugh?
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Sufficient, and sustained, ATF incompetency is exceedingly hard to differentiate from malice. We're going on decades of ATF incompetency at this point, and the federal usage of expansive warrants served incompetently has created room for local PDs and SWAT departments to do the same (see Breonna Taylor or Jose Guerena) to the point I seriously begin to question whether we would not be better off barring them entirely.

There is a place for serving warrants on people at 6 AM in full tactical gear. That place is when the subject has a history of violence, resisting arrest, or is under suspicion/charge of violent crime. The sale of guns to people who may have used them violently is some six-degrees of Kevin Bacon bullshit and whatever incompetent/malicious individual at the ATF planned 6 AM raid should be not just fired but charged with criminal endagerment TOWARDS THEIR OWN ATF OFFICERS at very least. Because I can imagine no situation (barring new information about Malinowski's criminal history or acts) in which it is better for either Malinowski or law enforcement officers to do the early-morning raid song-and-dance when arrest at his place of employment, or while traveling alone in a vehicle (which they were tracking and tailing), were both open as options.

Like, worst-case, home is where ALL THE GUNS AND AMMO are, ATF dumbasses. Removing the individual from access to such for resisting lowers their threat-profile significantly and, in the much more likely best-case, they're COMPLETELY UNARMED at work or during travel.

But, as usual, nobody will be held accountable, no policies or procedures will change, and the agents who endangered others, killed Malinowski directly, and made all the conditions for him to be killed as part of their job will go unpunished.
Maybe someone will get a slap on the wrist like a paper 'bad boy' type thing.

And this is why the ATF (and the FBI...and many SWAT operations at local-level...and many other law enforcements agencies) must be destroyed. Or, at very least, have their active enforcement powers removed in favor of localized enforcement (which retains some problems, but at least those are much more easily held to account). Or we can once again slide up to addressing qualified immunity's shitty 'externalities' of cops killing people under questionable circumstances with no consequence.

*puts on hot-take hat*
The only real 'gun violence' problem in the United States comes from armed gangs and their warfare against each other spilling out or their victimization of others.
Unfortunately, a lot of actual law enforcement groups are included in that 'armed gangs' category.
 
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DarthOne

☦️
Sufficient, and sustained, ATF incompetency is exceedingly hard to differentiate from malice. We're going on decades of ATF incompetency at this point, and the federal usage of expansive warrants served incompetently has created room for local PDs and SWAT departments to do the same (see Breonna Taylor or Jose Guerena) to the point I seriously begin to question whether we would not be better off barring them entirely.

There is a place for serving warrants on people at 6 AM in full tactical gear. That place is when the subject has a history of violence, resisting arrest, or is under suspicion/charge of violent crime. The sale of guns to people who may have used them violently is some six-degrees of Kevin Bacon bullshit and whatever incompetent/malicious individual at the ATF planned 6 AM raid should be not just fired but charged with criminal endagerment TOWARDS THEIR OWN ATF OFFICERS at very least. Because I can imagine no situation (barring new information about Malinowski's criminal history or acts) in which it is better for either Malinowski or law enforcement officers to do the early-morning raid song-and-dance when arrest at his place of employment, or while traveling alone in a vehicle (which they were tracking and tailing), were both open as options.

Like, worst-case, home is where ALL THE GUNS AND AMMO are, ATF dumbasses. Removing the individual from access to such for resisting lowers their threat-profile significantly and, in the much more likely best-case, they're COMPLETELY UNARMED at work or during travel.

But, as usual, nobody will be held accountable, no policies or procedures will change, and the agents who endangered others, killed Malinowski directly, and made all the conditions for him to be killed as part of their job will go unpunished.
Maybe someone will get a slap on the wrist like a paper 'bad boy' type thing.

And this is why the ATF (and the FBI...and many SWAT operations at local-level...and many other law enforcements agencies) must be destroyed. Or, at very least, have their active enforcement powers removed in favor of localized enforcement (which retains some problems, but at least those are much more easily held to account). Or we can once again slide up to addressing qualified immunity's shitty 'externalities' of cops killing people under questionable circumstances with no consequence.

*puts on hot-take hat*
The only real 'gun violence' problem in the United States comes from armed gangs and their warfare against each other spilling out or their victimization of others.
Unfortunately, a lot of actual law enforcement groups are included in that 'armed gangs' category.

I increasingly doubt that it’s incompetence. What better way to discourage firearms owners then the fear of being ‘accidentally’ killed if they step a toe out of line? It’s Ruby Ridge and Waco tactics all over again.
 

Abhorsen

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Vivek was the chance to actually destroy the ATF. Trump simply won't, and will ban a new category of guns. Remember, "Take the guns first, due process second". Or the shiny new building he wants to build the FBI. Or I could go on. Trump is opposed by the worst of the swamp, but he's shown himself utterly incapable of actually changing it.
 

Abhorsen

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Honestly, with Vivek getting on Team Trump, there's a non-zero chance he'll be put in charge of doing stuff like that, which is the best of both worlds.
To be able to do that, you need to be confirmed. And he won't be confirmed by the senate if he wants to enact actual change. So I'm going to say probably not. You need to be president or at least VP to be able to do that.

Why didn't they call the suspect up and tell him he won the lottery? Tell him to bring his ID with him to such and such a location and then arrest him there?
Because there's a 100% chance you bring a gun to something as sketchy as that? Or just ignore it.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Vivek was the chance to actually destroy the ATF. Trump simply won't, and will ban a new category of guns. Remember, "Take the guns first, due process second". Or the shiny new building he wants to build the FBI. Or I could go on. Trump is opposed by the worst of the swamp, but he's shown himself utterly incapable of actually changing it.
Vivek will get another shot in 2028; and hopefully, he'll be able to build off of whatever Trump manages to accomplish in the next four years.
 

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