Philosophy Governing The Star Wars Galaxy

[Deleted member 88]

The Republic's "Main constituents" if you will consist of Coruscant and her main daughter worlds in the Core and the Colonies. They're mostly Ecumenopoli--city planets--with populations in the trillions and a vast network of nearby ag-colonies to feed them. They have enormous power because they have an enormous population, they have enormous industry with giant factory-moons, they pretty much do whatever they want because their fraction of the galactic GDP is huge, and has exactly two rivals...

The secondary constituent is Alsakan. Alsakan is probably the second-oldest human settled planet in the galaxy and it's probably from a divergent cultural strain from that which dominated Coruscant. It has ceremonial plazas and birds and ruthlessly powerful merchant women... So it's no surprise that the outright matriarchal Kuat is a daughter colony of Humbarine (the Ecumenopolis destroyed in the Clone Wars), which was a daughter colony of ... Alsakan (and then Commenor, in the Colonies, and called "The Queen of the Colonies", one of the most populous and economically powerful cities there, was a Kuati daughter colony).

Coruscant and Alsakan had similar populations, similar colonization efforts, and both wanted to dominate economic trade in the galaxy. So they fought Seventeen conflicts over the course of the 25,000 year history of the Republic for control of the Republic. But that's over 25,000 years! At its worst, the fighting was more frequent, with a few outliers like the Seventeenth War, which was fought around the time of the Sith Wars, but they were more or less decisively settled in favour of Coruscant thousands of years beforehand. And because you have to assume culture exists for a reason, elements of Kuati culture had to evolve out of Alsakan's.

So those merchant ladies sure put up a fight first.

Still, worlds founded by Alsakan remain incredibly important to the Republic. Kuat Drive Yards, the premier shipbuilding concern of the galaxy, is still a concern of the planet of Kuat, and in general, the Alsakanian side of the Core is well-integrated now.

(This may actually explain some of where the supposed HuMan elitism comes from -- Coruscant settled whether or not the galaxy would be a matriarchy thousands of years ago).

The third factor is Corellia. Corellia, and Corellians like Han Solo, were on the edge of the built-up core, and Corellia itself is only partially a Ecumenopoli (about 50% of the planet's surface is city), but the seven habitable planets in one system gave it an immediate advantage anyway and it had developed from either an early lost colony ship or, secondly, a group of revolted Rakatan slaves. It built up a large network of dense, rich worlds linked by trade, and was independent of the Republic for the first few thousand years. Taking advantage of the split between Alsakan and Coruscant in the Republic, this group, as an organised bloc with its own government, was able to negotiate special constitutional protections of its autonomy.

As an aside, in the early years of the Republic, the Ancient & Honorable Union of the Tion Hegemony. Located on the outer Rim instead of the Core, they still had a much higher population and early settlement date compared to the rest of the Outer Rim, because they developed from, presumably, revolved Rakatan slaves, into a major pre-Republic polity which began the basis of Xim the Despot's early Empire and fought against the Hutts and the Republic in major wars which ultimately devastated Tion. Forced to join the Republic for protection against the Hutts, this fourth factor in human politics soon slipped away into irrelevance, and has sat like modern Egypt in the ruins of ancient Egypt for thousands and thousands of years now, but it provided a fourth distinct cultural strain to humanity in the Star Wars Galaxy, with an elite that is quite arrogant and obsessed with lineage and blood purity, but essentially irrelevant in any kind of real power, with half-abandoned palaces mouldering in the ruins of civilisation and the deserts created by Hutt bombardments thousands of years ago on worlds whose populations have been in decline for most of the history of the Republic.

If the first three groups agree on something, it happens. And what they agreed upon was a galaxy open to free market capitalism. The Trade Federation was an attempt during the Ruusan Republic, when the Ruusan Reformation had reduced their power, to block them from large markets using unfair trade practices so that less-competitive alien corporations, especially those in the Duros-sphere of the republic (which is probably about as powerful as the Corellian sphere) could be artificially competitive again. The solution of Coruscant and Alsakanian elite society was to support Palpatine and the Empire as a way to make the galaxy safe for them to make money again.

You could argue the Pius Dea was a renewed wave of Coruscanti expansion, or rather where human expansion entered its most pronounced stage.

Also interesting to note that matriarchy and goddesses have a role in ancient human SW history.

The CIS was backed by those in the outer rim and mid rim who were downtrodden by human expansion, but it was not an organic movement, but a corporatist one.

Eventually post Legacy I see the situation stabilizing.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Mondays - Thursdays will be a direct democratic system operating under a forced voting law.
Friday will be an absolute dictatorship.
Saturday will be a representative democracy.
Sunday will be complete lawless anarchy.

So France throughout the 19th Century basically then

 

[Deleted member]

You could argue the Pius Dea was a renewed wave of Coruscanti expansion, or rather where human expansion entered its most pronounced stage.

Also interesting to note that matriarchy and goddesses have a role in ancient human SW history.

The CIS was backed by those in the outer rim and mid rim who were downtrodden by human expansion, but it was not an organic movement, but a corporatist one.

Eventually post Legacy I see the situation stabilizing.

Basically the Trade Federation wanted to use the CIS as a vehicle for trade protection to keep the big Coruscanti industries from doing business in the outer and mid rim, so that alien companies could remain competitive.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Basically the Trade Federation wanted to use the CIS as a vehicle for trade protection to keep the big Coruscanti industries from doing business in the outer and mid rim, so that alien companies could remain competitive.

It’s far worse than that though. The CIS also acted as a giant monopolistic entity using the Republic’s legal system to stifle any independent trading guilds or groups. Throufh things such as the special economic zones they outcompete other businesses basically making it all but impossible for the outer rim to develop without being within the confines of the CIS.

Even without fallen Jedi, and even if Darth Bane never founded his order, it seems inevitable that a new Dark Side power will rise. Possibly something like the Night Sisters would eventually rise to galactic power if the Dark Side lacks other options, though it is very unclear how much the Balance and Dark Side are actually willing things to happen and how much force users apply mystical interpretations to events.

To be honest the past millenia of Galactic history has been about a fight between two “Force Cultists” groups. The Jedi versus the “Sith Heresy.” I’m surprised that there has been no move to separate Church and state in the Republic.

The Sith also need some sort of reformation of their own as the philipsophy of might makes right is kinda dumb which was why most of humanity in our world developed actual solid institutions, complex societal frameworks, and a tradition ofa peaceful transition of power. How the Sith haven’t worked out a system for this is quite astounding. The Rule of Two is kinda stupid, as the Apprentice can always kill the master before learning everything. Sidious killing Plagueis is an example as Sidious was unable to replicate or re-learn the secrets related to Midichlorians and the nature of the Force that Darth Plagueis had known.

I kinda wish that the Sith had more concrete institutions like the Sith Empire in the old Republic, but with a more functional legal system and government.

 

[Doomsought]

There is already a need to ballance the needs of smaller populations with those of large concentrated populations on earth, even in individual states in the US a large city can basically rule over the rest of the state by sheer populations. While the large population does need some extra representation, a linear system leads to the smaller populations being abused by the larger ones.

I'm in favor of a logarithmic approach. The weight of a represented population's vote in the federal system should be proportional to its order of magnitude rather than absolute population. So a planet with a billion will only get three more votes than a planet with a population of a million, rather than a thousand times as many.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

While the large population does need some extra representation, a linear system leads to the smaller populations being abused by the larger ones.

I'm in favor of a logarithmic approach. The weight of a represented population's vote in the federal system should be proportional to its order of magnitude rather than absolute population. So a planet with a billion will only get three more votes than a planet with a population of a million, rather than a thousand times as many.

There's a problem with scaling real-world demographics with that of Star Wars. For example the population of Earth for example in Star Wars would be extremely dense for a planet in Star Wars. Star Wars also has a lot of inconsistent numbers, as Coruscant based on SW figures, is severely underpopulated. Coruscant should be at least tens of trillions in population seeing as how the whole planet is now one giant urban landscape.

Its kinda stupid though for a planet since that means its entire ecosystem is destroyed making it highly dependent on the support of outside star systems and planets to keep it functional. Should some sort of disruption in trade or resources occur, it would be outright apocalyptic for the planet.

In terms of representation, there's the fact that not all species are the same. Some species are completely sentient while there are others like the Geonosians which act more like one hive mind resembling insects on Earth. This would have to be taken into account. The problem also is that the Republic functions less like a nation-state, and more akin to a Confederation of Autonomous Republics largely resembling the Holy Roman Empire in many aspects. The Republic's institutions are quite corrupt and ineffective, its executive is very weak and largely ceremonial, and it doesn't even have its own army, instead relying on local planets and systems to provide for their own defense with their own armies and fleets.

Even if Palpatine was evil guy, him taking over and instituting the Republic was the end result of its political trajectory. The Republic had long since ceased its function with Palpatine hastening its already impeding death. If not Palpatine, its likely someone else would have taken it over, or the Republic would have collapsed under its own weight. The simmering resentment between the Inner Core Worlds and the Outer Rim was already present and building up long before Palaptine and Plagueis initiated their plans. Eventually some sort of Civil War, or Political Crisis/Upheaval would have come into play.

Though I wonder how a more secular Empire would have fared in Star Wars. An Empire with strong institutions that provided stability and facilitated internal development was what many thought they were getting when Palpatine took over. Instead Palpatine became a megalomaniacal despot who created a dictatorship that operated more akin to the Ancient Greek "Tyranical system" rather than a true monarchical system. The Empire basically put the Galaxy into an economic depression by forcing it into a command economy and misusing its power by subjugating the economy to the whims of the state. The direction of funds toward the Military Industrial Complex starved the Private sector of investment which led to an overall decrease in living standards, or outright stagnation. This made the Empire unsustainable and largely doomed to fail.

 

[WyldCard4]

To be honest the past millenia of Galactic history has been about a fight between two “Force Cultists” groups. The Jedi versus the “Sith Heresy.” I’m surprised that there has been no move to separate Church and state in the Republic.

What's in it for the Sith? Or for the Jedi, or for the Republic?

Remove Jedi support from the Republic, and there's no Republic within a few decades. State support for the Jedi isn't particularly necessary, but is fairly efficient.

The Sith also need some sort of reformation of their own as the philipsophy of might makes right is kinda dumb which was why most of humanity in our world developed actual solid institutions, complex societal frameworks, and a tradition ofa peaceful transition of power. How the Sith haven’t worked out a system for this is quite astounding. The Rule of Two is kinda stupid, as the Apprentice can always kill the master before learning everything. Sidious killing Plagueis is an example as Sidious was unable to replicate or re-learn the secrets related to Midichlorians and the nature of the Force that Darth Plagueis had known.

I kinda wish that the Sith had more concrete institutions like the Sith Empire in the old Republic, but with a more functional legal system and government.

Oh, the Rule of Two makes perfect sense if you believe the Dark Side is actively manipulating the universe and doesn't particularly like most users of the Dark Side. Darth Bane basically did believe that, and later Sith seem schizophrenic on the issue on if they are servants of the Dark Side, allies of the Dark Side, or masters of the Dark Side.

Keeping the minimum group necessary for continuity of lore on hand and waiting for an easier time to reform is a fairly logical move if you are the Dark Side. Not having to give out power to other people who might benefit from it makes sense as the Dark Side seems to hate Dark Side users roughly as much as anyone else.

Separation of Church and State doesn't really work if people think the Devil is literally managing a country next door.

Though I wonder how a more secular Empire would have fared in Star Wars. An Empire with strong institutions that provided stability and facilitated internal development was what many thought they were getting when Palpatine took over. Instead Palpatine became a megalomaniacal despot who created a dictatorship that operated more akin to the Ancient Greek "Tyranical system" rather than a true monarchical system. The Empire basically put the Galaxy into an economic depression by forcing it into a command economy and misusing its power by subjugating the economy to the whims of the state. The direction of funds toward the Military Industrial Complex starved the Private sector of investment which led to an overall decrease in living standards, or outright stagnation. This made the Empire unsustainable and largely doomed to fail.

In the Legacy era, they tried that. The Fel empire worked okay for a few decades, then got conquered by the Sith, and the remnants eventually had their Praetorian Guard murder their emperor, like usually happens, as the Light Side force order tasked with protecting the emperor and empire realized their emperor had turned evil.

It seems doubtful to me that most real world governments could exist in a universe with either Light Side or Dark Side force users. Rarity of force users mean planets can get away with it for a while, but any galactic government is going to be the center of superpowered people who have their own ideas on how to run things.

 

[JagerIV]

@PeliusAnar : Oh, Megacorporations certainly wouldn't be, on their own, a driver of stability per say. Just a driver of Centralization and a creator of "galactic issues" which would justify the existence and strength of a Galactic governance.

To see the distinction, look at Greece in the EU: big European corporations I'm sure were part of the drive to get the Euro accepted there and integrate the Greek economy more integrated into European norms. That integration has not however been a particularly strong driver of stability in Greece or the EU at large: if anything, the Centralization pushes in the EU such as the Euro and the various economic regulations has if anything destabilized and undermined parts of the economy of Europe and the effectiveness and popularity of the EU.

Centralization can sometimes mean just making other people's problems your problems: for example, lets say you had a partial galactization where the Republican Credit is used for big interstellar trade, but each planet still had its own currency for local trading. Something like what we have now with the US being the Reserve currency but each other country has its own currency to manage for local conditions. This can work, and if one planet's currency undergoes a bout of hyperinflation, oh well, they can use other currency, and because they have the levers of their own currency, they can fix it themselves.

However, lets say further galactization was pushed, lets say in this case by big correllion banks who can get monopoly rents by driving up the demand for Republican Credits while they have some sort of monopoly on the ability to issue it. So they push for the Republican Credit to replace the local currencies. Thus, the Republican Credit moves from a reserve currency to the standard currency of operation, like with the EU. However, now a planet or system that tries to hyperinflate the currency is trying to hyperinflate the galactic currency: now, a local financial issue is a galactic financial issue, just as the EU and Euro held turn what should have been a local Greek bankruptcy into a Continent wide crisis.

So, megacorporations would be a regular force for centralization, but not necesarily a force for stability: centralization can very well invite instability: in your example, turns a local buisness being an asshole into the Galactic republic being an asshole: like how locals in the carabean running plantations like slave camps didn't quite engender as much hostility as the United Fruit company playing politics did.

 

[Deleted member 88]

The issue here is that the galaxy is so big-the corporations have enough profits that they more or less challenge the republic/galactic government.

If they are not co-opted or given sandboxes-the corporate sector was a way to give corporations an area of space to play in without any regulation or restriction whatsoever. Thus lessening tensions with state authority.

There was a deleted passage in The Essential Guide to Warfare-may be online, maybe not. Where it talks about some lawless area in the northern mid rim-infested by pirates. The trade federation came along and droid armies solved the problem-the passage was from the perspective of a small prospector or something-and they appreciated the security it brought. Corporate rule is at least better than anarchy.

And when you become powerful enough as a corporation-you basically take over the role of government, as any disorder is a threat to the bottom line.

 

[JagerIV]

Eh, not quite. There really isn't a point where a company gets so big it takes over the role of government. At least, as a general rule.

For example, compare from this list of banks in the US. The largest bank has some $2.6 trillion in assets, while the smallest only has $15 billion. Thats a 173x difference in scale. Is JP Morgan more state like than South State Bank?

If you had a galactic bank that had 100,000 trillion in assets, where does it start becoming state like? And then how does it start to challenge the government? Especially if the government is taxing all the profit made by that bank and all other banks, giving it overall more money?

Now, can it effect the governance of the Republic? Of course, and it should: any company operating on a galactic scale would have a reasonable interest in the galactic government. But, a company lobbying for its interest is different than being a challenge to the Republic.

Now, certain companies do have a tendency to create government like structures. For example, mining companies have had a tendency to set up company towns, as well as some manufacturers creating towns around their factories. These could certainly brutalize and oppress some people isolated on backwaters. However, these are exactly the kind of companies that would seem least likely be in rebellion against the republic: they oppressing people (potentially, not all company towns are necessarily an exploitative, many in fact were fairly nice places to live) but if they are oppressing people, their oppressing people for the benifit of the core worlds they are assumedly oppressing people to mine and build products to sell to the core worlds of the republic.

Some of this seems like being concerned that the corporation set up by the Belgium King to abuse the people of Congo for the benefit of Belgium would be a major source of insurrection against the Belgium Empire. Now, it brutalizing Congelese I'm sure... undermined loyalty in the Congo to the Belgium empire, but such disloyalty does not come from the companies doing the exploiting.

Companies abusing locals does not necessarily undermine Republican Power, and in some cases may increase it: A megacorporation landing on a medieval planet and enslaving them all to mine, I don't know, corn for sale to the Galactic market, is not doing something nice, but can't really be said to be undermining Republican authority, and is in fact spreading Republican influence to a planet that didn't have it before.

 

[Bear Ribs]

The issue here is that the galaxy is so big-the corporations have enough profits that they more or less challenge the republic/galactic government.

If they are not co-opted or given sandboxes-the corporate sector was a way to give corporations an area of space to play in without any regulation or restriction whatsoever. Thus lessening tensions with state authority.

There was a deleted passage in The Essential Guide to Warfare-may be online, maybe not. Where it talks about some lawless area in the northern mid rim-infested by pirates. The trade federation came along and droid armies solved the problem-the passage was from the perspective of a small prospector or something-and they appreciated the security it brought. Corporate rule is at least better than anarchy.

And when you become powerful enough as a corporation-you basically take over the role of government, as any disorder is a threat to the bottom line.

This presumes that the government isn't scaling with the corporations. If space!Apple has 1 trillion times more power than Apple on earth today, yes that corporation would casually topple the US government. but if the space!US government is also 1 trillion times more powerful than the real!US, it can tell space!Apple where to shove it. It's not the absolute size that matters, it's the ratio of corporation:government power. Just scale profits to tax income.

'Course when your Republic has no military at all it becomes increasingly difficult to tell space!Apple where to shove it, especially when it turns out space!Apple has a massive army, but that's not a problem with corporations themselves but with a Republic feeble enough to not even have the equivalent of the Coast Guard.

 

[WyldCard4]

I think the problem isn't that a galactic state can't beat a megacorp, but that a megacorp is much bigger than any planetary governments. It has been discussed before that it is very hard to make sub-groupings larger than a planetary system and smaller than much of the galaxy due to how many neighbors every planet has. A megacorp serves as a great special interest group on a galactic scale, so can usually get whatever they want in a given conflict.

 

[Lanmandragon]

You have stuff backwards if a "corp' had the ability to enforce law. They are infact the state the "republic" in wars is a joke. In any situation without authorial Fiat the corps are in charge period. While the "republic" is at best a facade to pacify the masses. The simple reality is ANY state who lacks a military is not infact a state. The question the OP lays out is fallacious as in any actual situation. The corporations have long ago subjagated the "state" and became the true authority. Like it or not all power always boils down to "I can kick your ass". Anything else is just delusional and uterally naive.

 

[JagerIV]

I think the problem isn't that a galactic state can't beat a megacorp, but that a megacorp is much bigger than any planetary governments. It has been discussed before that it is very hard to make sub-groupings larger than a planetary system and smaller than much of the galaxy due to how many neighbors every planet has. A megacorp serves as a great special interest group on a galactic scale, so can usually get whatever they want in a given conflict.

Sure, but walmart can also fairly effectively lobby a small town of 20,000 to get what they want, and an unscrupulious national company can bring federal resources to bear that a local company that crosses them are I'll equipped to deal with.

That a multi planetary system can bully a single planetary system isnt really a mark against the galactic government: in fact the ability for a larger organization to effectively bully a smaller one is a requitement for the galactic state to exist at all! If defense is wildly more powerful than offense, where a single planet can say "srew you" to a galactic entity and get away with it, then you wont have the development of a galctic system, because bucking it is so easy.