Suggestions Getting rid of the NSFW forums

[Deleted member]

The NSFW forums are not popular... We have not really generated any interest in the kind of NSFW content which is tolerable. Who thinks that we would actually be growing more successfully if we replaced the NSFW forums with a non-NSFW private clubhouse for general discussions? It would tolerate some, well, clubhouse behaviour, but not any really NSFW material. It just seems like despite efforts to encourage it as a growth area (and in the spirit of free speech and compromise) that nobody here is interested in the NSFW forums, and to be honest, I feel uncomfortable having them on the website. I would be interested in hearing the community's opinions.

 

[Spartan303]

I wouldn't get rid of it entirely. But if its not really working out for us then I would say Mothball it until we grow large enough and there is demand enough for it. Then we can bring it back.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

That if we are going to claim to be a free speech platform and stand for free speech, restrictions on erotica are directly counter to that.

It also forces us to create much more stringent speech/content codes for borderline content. Right now we can just err on the side of caution and throw anything that might be over the line into NSFW. If we get rid of NSFW then that goes away and we (the staff) actually have to start making judgement calls about what is too far or acceptable.

Without clear cut and defined, detailed, limits with examples of what is and is not acceptable; that isn't really a good idea or inline with our general policy for rules enforcement.

Considering that all the NSFW sections can't even be seen as existing until you are already a member, and getting access to them requires that the user request it, I don't see a reason to get rid of it. That people don't make use of them all that much doesn't cost us anything. Honestly the biggest expense is in staff time to approve, and that isn't an issue. It could be if we increase substantially in size but for now it isn't even close to being a real concern.

 

[Marduk]

Mothballing would just create drama about the closing and opening, while the whole process would be an exercise in futility.
Overall, i think it is too soon to draw any conclusions in regard to such a potentially major policy change, and as mentioned, how it reflects on the free speech platform image. Give it a year or two, then we will be able to say something more certain.

It's also not that unpopular....
Total messages are slightly higher than gaming or versus boards. Even discounting the bulk of messages being in not really NSFW but still kind of semi private NSFW politics section (which alone is the size of Gaming board), the Pub with its proper NSFW content is still half the size of War College, so while not much, it's also not exactly nothing...

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Just let it exist, even if they’re not used so much, occasionally people will have use for em.....though not much we can post to begin with

 

[LTR]

I would just leave them as is. Just because they aren't being used now doesn't mean it may not have utility later. And it's already "built in" to the forum already. There are discussions and stuff taking place there and moving it now would be more of an inconvenience then moving it. Plus it would create needless drama for no real upside IMHO.

So I say leave it as is, I don't see a downside in leaving it existing as is.

 

[Jessica Atreides]

That if we are going to claim to be a free speech platform and stand for free speech, restrictions on erotica are directly counter to that.

Only if you have a narrow and honestly sad view of what constitutes freedom of speech. It's basic socialization to understand that not all things are appropriate for all situations/places, and its a mark of immaturity to think that not being able to bring erotica into every venue is a great injustice.

 

[Deleted member]

Only if you have a narrow and honestly sad view of what constitutes freedom of speech. It's basic socialization to understand that not all things are appropriate for all situations/places, and its a mark of immaturity to think that not being able to bring erotica into every venue is a great injustice.

That's exactly my concern -- for whatever reason, people who are interested in erotica here want total licence, of a type that I can't condone, whereas, I feel, that the kind of erotica we permit, is not very popular in this social set, so the NSFW forums won't ever really be used for their intended purpose, and serve to irritate those who want greater licence, and those who don't want any material of that type at all on the forum as well. And I was kind of thinking that they might be a hindrance to our growth in terms of attracting individuals who don't want to be on a website with any erotica at all.

On the other hand, this is very much an adult website, and not one intended for polite company, so I am also sympathetic to Tippy's argument.

 

[Navarro]

The reason the NSFW forums here haven't often been used is due to confusion about where the boundaries are.

 

[Marduk]

That's exactly my concern -- for whatever reason, people who are interested in erotica here want total licence, of a type that I can't condone, whereas, I feel, that the kind of erotica we permit, is not very popular in this social set, so the NSFW forums won't ever really be used for their intended purpose, and serve to irritate those who want greater licence, and those who don't want any material of that type at all on the forum as well. And I was kind of thinking that they might be a hindrance to our growth in terms of attracting individuals who don't want to be on a website with any erotica at all.

On the other hand, this is very much an adult website, and not one intended for polite company, so I am also sympathetic to Tippy's argument.

The reason the NSFW forums here haven't often been used is due to confusion about where the boundaries are.

Seems like the other direction to at least consider is to think of loosening the licence at least a bit if possible, and\or making its boundries clearer too.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

That's exactly my concern -- for whatever reason, people who are interested in erotica here want total licence, of a type that I can't condone, whereas, I feel, that the kind of erotica we permit, is not very popular in this social set, so the NSFW forums won't ever really be used for their intended purpose, and serve to irritate those who want greater licence, and those who don't want any material of that type at all on the forum as well. And I was kind of thinking that they might be a hindrance to our growth in terms of attracting individuals who don't want to be on a website with any erotica at all.

On the other hand, this is very much an adult website, and not one intended for polite company, so I am also sympathetic to Tippy's argument.

Creative content across the board just isn't that big on TS. I have also only noted one individual actually expressing concern about NSFW content being on the site at all.

Honestly, I just really don't see the point in caring about it. If a forum isn't being used, so what? Especially if the forum in question is only visible to those who request to be able to see it. It doesn't cost us anything and no one is really complaining about it too my knowledge.

 

[The Name of Love]

I believe that the NSFW section of this website serves no real purpose. There's already a website for people who want Spacebattles for NSFW content called Questionable Questing. When I look at their rules, they are extremely lax; they only ban material that is outright illegal in the U.S. as well as discussions on current politics. That's it. Anybody who wants to get their porn fix can head over there. The NSFW on this website is pointless. Some would say that this would violate free speech. But traditionally speaking, the right to free speech has not protected obscene material and only in the late 20th century was this changed. Not allowing NSFW material would be consistent with free speech principles from a traditionalist perspective.

If we are going to allow NSFW material on this website, we ought to be very clear on what is or isn't allowed. I'd say the QQ rules would be a good place to start, but I would add a ban on "loli." In any given sex act depicted in the fiction, the characters have to be physically and mentally above the age of consent (that is, around 16 to 18 years old). Otherwise? Nope.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

I believe that the NSFW section of this website serves no real purpose. There's already a website for people who want Spacebattles for NSFW content called Questionable Questing. When I look at their rules, they are extremely lax; they only ban material that is outright illegal in the U.S. as well as discussions on current politics. That's it. Anybody who wants to get their porn fix can head over there. The NSFW on this website is pointless. Some would say that this would violate free speech. But traditionally speaking, the right to free speech has not protected obscene material and only in the late 20th century was this changed. Not allowing NSFW material would be consistent with free speech principles from a traditionalist perspective.

If we are going to allow NSFW material on this website, we ought to be very clear on what is or isn't allowed. I'd say the QQ rules would be a good place to start, but I would add a ban on "loli." In any given sex act depicted in the fiction, the characters have to be physically and mentally above the age of consent (that is, around 16 to 18 years old). Otherwise? Nope.

Do people even bother to read the NSFW rules?

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/nsfw-rules.47/

 

[Deleted member 88]

So just out of curiosity, how will “borderline” stuff be handled in the future?

Say an otherwise non smut story has a sex scene, explicit or fade to black? Does that make NSFW or should the author put a warning that such content will be in it?

What about violence? Not sexual violence or whatever kinks there are-but say R rated violence violence. Is that NSFW or is that fine?

 

[Deleted member]

R-rated violence is fine in stories in the regular forum. So is lots of kissing and heavy petting followed by a fade to black. At least currently you could write the explicit part and post it in the NSFW forum and link to it in the main story, as well.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Ah I see that makes sense.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

The NSFW forums are not popular... We have not really generated any interest in the kind of NSFW content which is tolerable. Who thinks that we would actually be growing more successfully if we replaced the NSFW forums with a non-NSFW private clubhouse for general discussions? It would tolerate some, well, clubhouse behaviour, but not any really NSFW material. It just seems like despite efforts to encourage it as a growth area (and in the spirit of free speech and compromise) that nobody here is interested in the NSFW forums, and to be honest, I feel uncomfortable having them on the website. I would be interested in hearing the community's opinions.

It hasn't even been a year and you're talking about "Not popular". Buddy nothing on this site is popular, VS on SB was a boomtown for half a decade and our identical forum is nothing but Carl asking me questions about colonialism.

Stop caging your squeamishness and personal misgivings as pragmatic issues for the site, I find that far more intolerable than someone drawing a penis.

 

[Deleted member]

If even @The Name of Love isn’t absolutely against their presence, I suppose we can say the matter is settled. Thank you all for your input.