What If? Germany gets a deathly forcefield cutting it off from the outside world

King Arts

Well-known member
What would be the effects if all the territory of Germany gets covered by a force field, similar to how the one in the game Gothic works. The forcefield allows humans to go inside but if they try to leave they instantly die. Anything thats not human flora, fauna, minerals, etc. can be transported back and forth safely.

This field is applied right after ww1 ends.

Scenario two: It happens right after world war 2 ends.

Scenario three it happens at the height of the cold war.

Scenario four it happens in the modern day.
 

Buba

A total creep
no.1 - World War One ends on .. 11.XI.18? Now, that's interesting. Poland is cut off from the sea and without Posen or its part of Upper Silesia. In the short run slightly weaker versus the Bolsheviks but still should cope, in the longer run - much weaker.
no.2 - Inside borders from when - 1937? 1939? No Iron Curtain, impoverished Benelux, smaller and poorer Poland ...
no.3 - regardless of inside what borders, nukes fly, everybody dies
no.4 - most people inside die, EU collapses, global recession, life outside goes on
 

ATP

Well-known member
no.1 - World War One ends on .. 11.XI.18? Now, that's interesting. Poland is cut off from the sea and without Posen or its part of Upper Silesia. In the short run slightly weaker versus the Bolsheviks but still should cope, in the longer run - much weaker.
no.2 - Inside borders from when - 1937? 1939? No Iron Curtain, impoverished Benelux, smaller and poorer Poland ...
no.3 - regardless of inside what borders, nukes fly, everybody dies
no.4 - most people inside die, EU collapses, global recession, life outside goes on
No.2 - it would be 1945 borders.Notching change for rest of the world,Allied and soviet armies in germany rule on their own,when they discover that they could not leave.
Probably with surviving prisoners help.

So,only 4 is good for Poland - in 2 we are in the same shit as in OTL.
But,if it would be 1 with 1923 borders.....
 

Buba

A total creep
No.2 - it would be 1945 borders.Notching change for rest of the world,Allied and soviet armies in germany rule on their own,when they discover that they could not leave.
Now that you have pointed this out, a lot changes for the world outside. The USA, UK, USSR, Canada (!) France and Poland all lose entire armies inside Germany.
With the forces in Germany lost, does Stalin continue reinforcement of Far East? Does he carry out the attack against Japan? Maybe he even brings some of the Far Eastern units to Europe, to fend of the Western onslaught?
Canada is gutted of its male demographic (at least 175k men lost, from total population - 8M), the UK is also heavily hit (half a million? More?). I'm pretty certain that the USSR also is in a bad way as concerns 17-40 yer old males. Polish, French losses in the low six digits, but still lots left, the USA - even more so.
Soviet influence is lesser than OTL. The Soviet Union also looses slave workers (of both sexes) and POWs held in Germany - this is very bad, demographically.

So,only 4 is good for Poland - in 2 we are in the same shit as in OTL.
In no.2 Poland is on the edge of the Soviet zone - may end up with larger Red Army garrison.
 

Buba

A total creep
Brainfart on my part - also France and Poland both hit by loss of POWs/slave workers.
Same as USSR and Canada they get a "maleless generation".
 

stevep

Well-known member
What would be the effects if all the territory of Germany gets covered by a force field, similar to how the one in the game Gothic works. The forcefield allows humans to go inside but if they try to leave they instantly die. Anything thats not human flora, fauna, minerals, etc. can be transported back and forth safely.

This field is applied right after ww1 ends.

Scenario two: It happens right after world war 2 ends.

Scenario three it happens at the height of the cold war.

Scenario four it happens in the modern day.

Question of what is "all the territory of Germany"? For instance on 11-11-18 does that include overseas colonies which are now all pretty much allied occupied but still technically German possessions? Does it include any territories that Germany might have annexed during the war, especially in the east? What would be the situation of German islands - for instance Heligoland? That is some way out into the N Sea and there are I assume others in the Baltic. Are they included and if so is there some sort of extension of the barrier from the German mainland to them. If not then many of those islands could end up totally isolated. If there is such an extension that's going to be a death zone for anyone inadvertently crossing it the wrong way which is going to be an ongoing problem.

Similarly with May 45 technically there is no German government or state, as a result of the unconditional surrender policy. If you mean the borders imposed by the allies after the peace, although they had formally been decided before the surrender their not implemented yet. If the territory over which the prior German government claimed to be 'German' that's going to be a much larger region. Also again with the Cold War option technically there is no German state but two separate nations with different names.

Assuming for 11-11-18 the boundaries are as defined before the war then its going to cause a lot of problems. There will be no practical annexations and a lot of non-Germans, such as Poles in Prussia and Posen provinces, forced labourers, possibly a lot of POWs and of course diplomats and traders now have no capacity to return home or in the case of those who lived inside those boundaries pre-war to escape German rule.

At the same time there are a lot of Germans outside the barrier and depending on the reactions of the allies many may not be allowed to return at least in the short term. They will be suspicious that the barrier is some sort of German trick to avoid the results of their defeat. It will take some time to realise that only one way traffic is allowed and the costs of trying to escape the affected region. There will be a fair number of deaths occurring until this is widely accepted.

Also while non-humans and material are not directly affected moving equipment out of Germany will be disrupted until someone finds a way to do it without humans actually passing the barrier. A solution, once the parameters of the effect are understood would be a train which backs up to the barrier with wagons passing through but the cab itself staying inside the zone. Those wagons are then decoupled and attached to another train outside the zone. Possibly something could be sorted out for canal/river traffic but that could be more awkward.

Of course this also means that Germany has no way of forcing people to send goods inside the zone. With an hostile and distrusting allies controlling most of the border there could be a blockade imposed until Berlin lowers the barrier - which of course they can't but that might not be realised for some time.

There will be issues inside Germany with the country in a fair level of chaos and also any commerce with the wider world affected. You could see both left and right wing fanatics opposing the only recently established civilian government that was handed the poisoned chalice of coming to terms with the allies. That could mean further conflict and destruction inside Germany and also no clear government to try and communicate with the allied and other outside nations and groups.

Similarly while the quick collapse of the German army in the west is secured with most either surrendering or fleeing into the zone and ditto with Germans in the Balkans and the Ottoman empire this also isolates the Germans occupying the rest of Poland, much of Romania and other areas across much of the former Russian empire. Does this give the Soviets a better chance of securing an empire in the east or the removal of any remaining German threat mean that the allies are more willing/able to intervene against the Soviets in the east?

Of course that its only humans that are blocked from passing the barrier - one way anyway doesn't mean that conflict across the barrier is impossible. Although in the short term that would largely be limited to artillery bombardments unless things get really nasty.

Anyway a long enough post here so won't consider the other options for the moment.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
no.1 - World War One ends on .. 11.XI.18? Now, that's interesting. Poland is cut off from the sea and without Posen or its part of Upper Silesia. In the short run slightly weaker versus the Bolsheviks but still should cope, in the longer run - much weaker.
no.2 - Inside borders from when - 1937? 1939? No Iron Curtain, impoverished Benelux, smaller and poorer Poland ...
no.3 - regardless of inside what borders, nukes fly, everybody dies
no.4 - most people inside die, EU collapses, global recession, life outside goes on
Would nuclear war really happen if Germany became a penal colony? I mean supplies and information can still go back in forth, it's just people that are trapped inside. The USSR and America did have a red phone to quickly reach each other. I was thinking it'd happen sometime in the 60's

Sounds like a Communist government's ultimate fantasy.
Now that you bring it up yeah. But my first thought was about the ultimate penal colony/prison you send prisoners/undesireables there and never have to worry about them anymore.

Now that you have pointed this out, a lot changes for the world outside. The USA, UK, USSR, Canada (!) France and Poland all lose entire armies inside Germany.
With the forces in Germany lost, does Stalin continue reinforcement of Far East? Does he carry out the attack against Japan? Maybe he even brings some of the Far Eastern units to Europe, to fend of the Western onslaught?
Canada is gutted of its male demographic (at least 175k men lost, from total population - 8M), the UK is also heavily hit (half a million? More?). I'm pretty certain that the USSR also is in a bad way as concerns 17-40 yer old males. Polish, French losses in the low six digits, but still lots left, the USA - even more so.
Soviet influence is lesser than OTL. The Soviet Union also looses slave workers (of both sexes) and POWs held in Germany - this is very bad, demographically
So what happens inside Germany and what does the rest of the world do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATP

ATP

Well-known member
Now that you have pointed this out, a lot changes for the world outside. The USA, UK, USSR, Canada (!) France and Poland all lose entire armies inside Germany.
With the forces in Germany lost, does Stalin continue reinforcement of Far East? Does he carry out the attack against Japan? Maybe he even brings some of the Far Eastern units to Europe, to fend of the Western onslaught?
Canada is gutted of its male demographic (at least 175k men lost, from total population - 8M), the UK is also heavily hit (half a million? More?). I'm pretty certain that the USSR also is in a bad way as concerns 17-40 yer old males. Polish, French losses in the low six digits, but still lots left, the USA - even more so.
Soviet influence is lesser than OTL. The Soviet Union also looses slave workers (of both sexes) and POWs held in Germany - this is very bad, demographically.


In no.2 Poland is on the edge of the Soviet zone - may end up with larger Red Army garrison.

1.All true.USA would end Japan without soviets.And,soviets would not keep big garrison there once they undarstandt,that people there could not come out.

What is interesting - who would rule in Germany? i see soviet,allied and remnant of SS fighting for control,and entire territory collapsing into anarchy.

Brainfart on my part - also France and Poland both hit by loss of POWs/slave workers.
Same as USSR and Canada they get a "maleless generation".

Not really.Remember,that germans take slaves regardless of sex.Enough polish womans was taken to work there for not making big difference.

Would nuclear war really happen if Germany became a penal colony? I mean supplies and information can still go back in forth, it's just people that are trapped inside. The USSR and America did have a red phone to quickly reach each other. I was thinking it'd happen sometime in the 60's


Now that you bring it up yeah. But my first thought was about the ultimate penal colony/prison you send prisoners/undesireables there and never have to worry about them anymore.


So what happens inside Germany and what does the rest of the world do?

1.You have a point.There should be no nukes flying.And soviets,without need for paying their army there,could even survive till our times.
Bad end for everybody.

2.Both true,becouse penal colony was commie fantasy.

3.Allies,soviets and germans fight each other.We get many states as a result.
Canada and England have big problems and becomed even more dependent on USA.
Soviets are more weakened,and lost their only way for conqering Europe.They would fall,unless USA help them more then in OTL
USA rules.Unless they decide to save soviets and gave them half of world,like in OTL.
France do not lost many soldiers,so they would remain stronger european country.French EU would rule in Europe.
Poland would be maybe less fucked as in OTL,becouse soviets could not use as road for Europe conqer.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Question of what is "all the territory of Germany"? For instance on 11-11-18 does that include overseas colonies which are now all pretty much allied occupied but still technically German possessions? Does it include any territories that Germany might have annexed during the war, especially in the east? What would be the situation of German islands - for instance Heligoland? That is some way out into the N Sea and there are I assume others in the Baltic. Are they included and if so is there some sort of extension of the barrier from the German mainland to them. If not then many of those islands could end up totally isolated. If there is such an extension that's going to be a death zone for anyone inadvertently crossing it the wrong way which is going to be an ongoing problem.

Similarly with May 45 technically there is no German government or state, as a result of the unconditional surrender policy. If you mean the borders imposed by the allies after the peace, although they had formally been decided before the surrender their not implemented yet. If the territory over which the prior German government claimed to be 'German' that's going to be a much larger region. Also again with the Cold War option technically there is no German state but two separate nations with different names.

Assuming for 11-11-18 the boundaries are as defined before the war then its going to cause a lot of problems. There will be no practical annexations and a lot of non-Germans, such as Poles in Prussia and Posen provinces, forced labourers, possibly a lot of POWs and of course diplomats and traders now have no capacity to return home or in the case of those who lived inside those boundaries pre-war to escape German rule.

At the same time there are a lot of Germans outside the barrier and depending on the reactions of the allies many may not be allowed to return at least in the short term. They will be suspicious that the barrier is some sort of German trick to avoid the results of their defeat. It will take some time to realise that only one way traffic is allowed and the costs of trying to escape the affected region. There will be a fair number of deaths occurring until this is widely accepted.

Also while non-humans and material are not directly affected moving equipment out of Germany will be disrupted until someone finds a way to do it without humans actually passing the barrier. A solution, once the parameters of the effect are understood would be a train which backs up to the barrier with wagons passing through but the cab itself staying inside the zone. Those wagons are then decoupled and attached to another train outside the zone. Possibly something could be sorted out for canal/river traffic but that could be more awkward.

Of course this also means that Germany has no way of forcing people to send goods inside the zone. With an hostile and distrusting allies controlling most of the border there could be a blockade imposed until Berlin lowers the barrier - which of course they can't but that might not be realised for some time.

There will be issues inside Germany with the country in a fair level of chaos and also any commerce with the wider world affected. You could see both left and right wing fanatics opposing the only recently established civilian government that was handed the poisoned chalice of coming to terms with the allies. That could mean further conflict and destruction inside Germany and also no clear government to try and communicate with the allied and other outside nations and groups.

Similarly while the quick collapse of the German army in the west is secured with most either surrendering or fleeing into the zone and ditto with Germans in the Balkans and the Ottoman empire this also isolates the Germans occupying the rest of Poland, much of Romania and other areas across much of the former Russian empire. Does this give the Soviets a better chance of securing an empire in the east or the removal of any remaining German threat mean that the allies are more willing/able to intervene against the Soviets in the east?

Of course that its only humans that are blocked from passing the barrier - one way anyway doesn't mean that conflict across the barrier is impossible. Although in the short term that would largely be limited to artillery bombardments unless things get really nasty.

Anyway a long enough post here so won't consider the other options for the moment.
Thank you for such a well thought out response. I’ll try and answer your questions. For world war 1 the barrier covers all territories that Germany had prior to the war for the other scenarios only the territories that make up modern germany. As for islands and colonial possessions those are not included unless the islands are within the sea territory of the nation im not sure what international laws say it might be 20 or 60 miles offshore. But it won’t include African lands German lands that are connected to mainland Germany and any islands that are part of the sea borders. Oh and for the Cold War both east and West Germany are included.

As for trade disputes germany can force others to give them trade. I mean if France wants minerals that germany mined but won’t give food in exchange then germany can just stop supplying the minerals. Any army would be very heisitant to go through the barrier, also do you think many people would need to die for it to be figured out? What if when people got close to leave the barrier (the barrier is visible think like a shimmer you can se the edge of the nation but it’s also see through so you can see over the barrier) there was a voice telling them to turn back or they’ll die?
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
Scenario 1 would be the best case for Germany's future as it would still be populated by one nation with no occupying forces. This would lead to the best chance of a stable society inside the force field. Each scenario after is going to have more and more conflict and strife as you introduce different peoples into the pot that are not united and do not share the same values and are competing over the same set of limited land and resources.

As for the outside world, I don't think nukes would automatically fly in scenario 3. Russian Intelligence would know that the West would be just as clueless about the force field and that they almost certainly had nothing to do with it.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Thank you for such a well thought out response. I’ll try and answer your questions. For world war 1 the barrier covers all territories that Germany had prior to the war for the other scenarios only the territories that make up modern germany. As for islands and colonial possessions those are not included unless the islands are within the sea territory of the nation im not sure what international laws say it might be 20 or 60 miles offshore. But it won’t include African lands German lands that are connected to mainland Germany and any islands that are part of the sea borders. Oh and for the Cold War both east and West Germany are included.

As for trade disputes germany can force others to give them trade. I mean if France wants minerals that germany mined but won’t give food in exchange then germany can just stop supplying the minerals. Any army would be very heisitant to go through the barrier, also do you think many people would need to die for it to be figured out? What if when people got close to leave the barrier (the barrier is visible think like a shimmer you can se the edge of the nation but it’s also see through so you can see over the barrier) there was a voice telling them to turn back or they’ll die?

I'm not sure but think the international laws for sea territory was about 12 miles at the time or possibly even only 3 still as such the more distant locations such as Heligoland would be excluded but close islands would still be included.

Its going to be messy inside Germany and outside it as well. Germany can't really force others to trade with them as France for instance has the rest of the world to trade with as do other nations. Germany can't even offer to return prisoners once its realised that sending people out of the zone kills them. If they were to do such, as part of some bid to gain resources then its going to really sour relations with the rest of the world, especially the affected countries.

If for the other three scenarios only modern Germany is inside the zone then:a
a) scenario 2 in 1945 - Germany is in chaos and a lot of Germans are still outside the zone while many allied forces and even more slave labourers are now trapped inside it. The former parts of eastern Germany and locations annexed by German since 1936 [Austria and Bohemia primarily will come under Soviet rule other than the partition of Austria. The Soviets have lost a lot of men and also the chance to loot what became OTL E Germany. The western allies have also lost a lot and will probably take on the bulk of the burden of aiding the population trapped inside the zone. What's going to happen there is likely to be bad but could go in any number of ways.

b) CW scenario - depending on time and how quickly people realise what's happened. A lot of plans flying that leave the zone will quickly become disaster zones as to where they crash while trains and barges will cause less disruption but still result in a lot of deaths. Hopefully neither the home governments or the forces inside the zone will go nuclear. Its likely that cut off from military reinforcements - unless the Soviets are willing to send more men in knowing they will be unable to get them out again - the zone will become western dominated as its going to have more population and resources than the east. Which won't be popular in Moscow.

It does make war in central Europe a lot more difficult as there's only a thin path through Austria and N Italy for any attack to occur, or some strike into Scandinavia.

c) Modern era. The big gainer here could be Putin :( as the most powerful economic state in Europe is now cut off from the rest of the world, at least in terms of the movement of people while movement of goods across much of Europe will be disrupted for quite a while.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Does the USSR "liberating" all of Germany counts as that? Because I kinda did it in my ongoing timeline😂
Nope the territory Russia takes can be called Russia and ruled by Russia. But if it’s part of modern day germany it gets a shield that stops people from leaving.
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
Now that you have pointed this out, a lot changes for the world outside. The USA, UK, USSR, Canada (!) France and Poland all lose entire armies inside Germany.
With the forces in Germany lost, does Stalin continue reinforcement of Far East? Does he carry out the attack against Japan? Maybe he even brings some of the Far Eastern units to Europe, to fend of the Western onslaught?
Canada is gutted of its male demographic (at least 175k men lost, from total population - 8M), the UK is also heavily hit (half a million? More?). I'm pretty certain that the USSR also is in a bad way as concerns 17-40 yer old males. Polish, French losses in the low six digits, but still lots left, the USA - even more so.
Soviet influence is lesser than OTL. The Soviet Union also looses slave workers (of both sexes) and POWs held in Germany - this is very bad, demographically.

Not to mention that dating in Germany after this is going to be weird. I don't know how many women were left after so many German soldiers died, but I imagine competition will be fierce, and the resulting culture will end up being very weird, nigh unrecognizable after a generation or two.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Not to mention that dating in Germany after this is going to be weird. I don't know how many women were left after so many German soldiers died, but I imagine competition will be fierce, and the resulting culture will end up being very weird, nigh unrecognizable after a generation or two.
Why would it be more fierce than what happened historically? I mean the same amount of people died.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top