German Navy goes for Saint Petersburg 1915

[Chiron]

Instead of pointlessly waiting for Der Tag which is stupid, the German High Command decides to draw the Russian Baltic Fleet into a shit kicking contest it can't win and push on Saint Petersburg via amphibious assault and force the Russian Government out of its capital and even induce a Finnish and Baltic Revolt.

This represented the best way to knock Russia out and combined with a renewed Ottoman push in Kars or at least a tie down of Russian Forces, can induce the Tsar to lose much of his support and see large parts of his Empire say fuck this, outta here. The Allies have no good counters other than what they already had planned, and if this operation induces Bulgaria and Romania to jump on the CP bandwagon and Italy to nope out, all the better. But seriously Russia is the weakest Allied Power with the least industry and a large portion of it is at Saint Petersburg. Take it out and the Russian War Machine crashes.

With Russia fatally wounded the CP can get what they want out of it and then turn west with the goal of putting France out of the War and kicking Britain out of the MENA area.

 

[PsihoKekec]

They take horrendous casualties in the minefields, any landed troops get pinned down by Sankt Petersburg garrison and the entire operation is known as German Galipoli.

 

[Chiron]

They take horrendous casualties in the minefields, any landed troops get pinned down by Sankt Petersburg garrison and the entire operation is known as German Galipoli.

The German Navy had little trouble doing a similar invasion in Operation Albion and the mines were only a minor hindrance.

The Russians have to meet the Germans in open battle with their Navy or lose it in port while the Germans pound them to scrap.

Also the mines wouldn't be laid till late August of 1915.

So how it would go is the Germans first go for Helsinki, when it is iced over, which really puts the Russians in a bind. Several of their ships winter there so its an easy win for the Germans and allows them to declare an independent Finland if Sweden doesn't want it as payment to join the CP and draws Soviet troops from other fronts.

From that point, the German Army in conjunction with the Navy dictates the flow of battle and can then move on Saint Petersburg via three axis, two Army and 1 Navy approach.

 

[PsihoKekec]

The German Navy had little trouble doing a similar invasion in Operation Albion and the mines were only a minor hindrance.

German Navy was able to conduct operation Albion only after extensive mine clearing, not to mention that operation was carried out when Russian armed forces were disentigrating due to revolution.

Also the mines wouldn't be laid till late August of 1915.

Russians have been planting naval minefields since the start of war, so unless ASB hands the Germans full map of Russian minefields they are going to be in big trouble. Not to mention that Russians have considerable experience in offensive minelaying so they could place additional mines as German navy steams up the Gulf of Finland. Thus the Germans have to break through the naval mines covered by the shore batteries, while Russian Navy can hide behind Kotlin island and shell the Germans from there.

So how it would go is the Germans first go for Helsinki, when it is iced over, which really puts the Russians in a bind.

Naval operation in ice are terrible idea, naval landing even more so. There is a reason why both sides avoided major actions during winter months.

 

[WolfBear]

German Navy was able to conduct operation Albion only after extensive mine clearing, not to mention that operation was carried out when Russian armed forces were disentigrating due to revolution.


Russians have been planting naval minefields since the start of war, so unless ASB hands the Germans full map of Russian minefields they are going to be in big trouble. Not to mention that Russians have considerable experience in offensive minelaying so they could place additional mines as German navy steams up the Gulf of Finland. Thus the Germans have to break through the naval mines covered by the shore batteries, while Russian Navy can hide behind Kotlin island and shell the Germans from there.


Naval operation in ice are terrible idea, naval landing even more so. There is a reason why both sides avoided major actions during winter months.

What about trying to do a land attack on St. Petersburg in 1916 as opposed to going for Verdun in the West?

 

[Chiron]

German Navy was able to conduct operation Albion only after extensive mine clearing, not to mention that operation was carried out when Russian armed forces were disentigrating due to revolution.

Said minefield wasn't even laid till late August- early September of 1915. And Albion was carried out because the Germans belatedly changed strategy.

Russians have been planting naval minefields since the start of war, so unless ASB hands the Germans full map of Russian minefields they are going to be in big trouble. Not to mention that Russians have considerable experience in offensive minelaying so they could place additional mines as German navy steams up the Gulf of Finland. Thus the Germans have to break through the naval mines covered by the shore batteries, while Russian Navy can hide behind Kotlin island and shell the Germans from there.

Shore batteries didn't save the Russians in Operation Albion and were silenced relatively quickly. The Germans have the superior ships and the superior range advantage. The Russians need to commit to a sea battle or lose the initiative and Finland.

Hell, Germany can actually do Finland and Estonia simultaneously, both areas were ripe for revolt, and with a new push through the Baltics and Finland, the Russians have to fall back to avoid the possibility of Minsk being taken or further revolts breaking out.

And this is well within the German means to do, and they can draw the Russians off the Austria-Hungarian Army in the process.

 

[raharris1973]

So when should the Germans start this- fall 1914? Winter 1914-1915? Spring 1915?

 

[raharris1973]

Chiron - can you hear me?

 

[Chiron]

So when should the Germans start this- fall 1914? Winter 1914-1915? Spring 1915?

Chiron - can you hear me?

Sorry, but I got caught up in a new mod for Empire Total War.

Early 1915 would be a good start. Given the timeframe, Falky would have to get hit by a cluebat in November that his plan is in tatters and its time to go full defensive in France, and all out on Russia. He can't split the baby like he did historically. He has to go all in. So once he makes that choice, he then has to slap Tirpitz in line from his stupid Der Tag bullshit and get him to commit to decisive battle with the Russian Navy which they can win and drag him kicking and screaming.