German Greens demand voting rights for foreigners and more money for integration

Buba

A total creep
Green=SPD comrades delegated to keep the lid on crazies to the left of the Party.
Like in every country the nuttiest environmentalists had been spun off by the mainstream socialist party to hoover up cranks and keep them from voting communist/some other competition.
The positive effect is that fewer cranks end up in terrorist cults.
Link with environment protection - sometimes ...
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Green Party is like the watermelon, green on the outside - red on the inside. Environmentalism has always been disproportionally the refugee of the loonies, so certain foreign interested parties found it easy to nudge them towards more radical policies. And after the fall of Soviet union, many discredited communists found refuge behind the green curtain.
Not to mention that of all European Green party, the German is by far the worst, they openly supported pedophilia and bestiality, before they decided to clean up their image and enter the government in the 90's.
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Green Party is like the watermelon, green on the outside - red on the inside. Environmentalism has always been disproportionally the refugee of the loonies, so certain foreign interested parties found it easy to nudge them towards more radical policies. And after the fall of Soviet union, many discredited communists found refuge behind the green curtain.
Not to mention that of all European Green party, the German is by far the worst, they openly supported pedophilia and bestiality, before they decided to clean up their image and enter the government in the 90's.
Isn't that all the elites these days?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Somebody please explain me what the green **** does this have to do with environment?


Easy to explain.When muslim kill all germans,they would fuck up all german factories,so there would be no more pollution.
They belive,that human are cancer,after all.
Interesting,why only white people.Arabs could made factories,too.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Somebody please explain me what the green **** does this have to do with environment?


Hold on now. It's a pretty heavy spin to claim that allowing dual citizenship means "voting rights for foreigners", and the claim that it would allow non-citizens to vote is complete speculation -- the proposed law does no such thing, but the article claims that it "might" do so with future amendments.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Hold on now. It's a pretty heavy spin to claim that allowing dual citizenship means "voting rights for foreigners", and the claim that it would allow non-citizens to vote is complete speculation -- the proposed law does no such thing, but the article claims that it "might" do so with future amendments.

Dual citizenship does mean voting rights for foreigners. And even "naturalized" immigrants are a major problem, for example in Netherlands where they supported further immigration.

 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Also, as an important point of context:

Germany already permits foreigners to vote in local elections, as long as they are EU nationals. So when this bill discusses "non-national" voting rights, they're not talking about letting non-Germans vote, they're talking about expanding the *already existing* foreign voting to include legal residents who are from non-EU states.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
No, someone who is a citizen of a country is by definition *not* a foreigner.

Someone who was not born in the country, at least, is a foreigner - regardless of citizenship. And nevermind the fact that some people may be citizens of more than one country.

Also, as an important point of context:

Germany already permits foreigners to vote in local elections, as long as they are EU nationals. So when this bill discusses "non-national" voting rights, they're not talking about letting non-Germans vote, they're talking about expanding the *already existing* foreign voting to include legal residents who are from non-EU states.

Which is still the stupid of the same kind.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Whether or not one agrees with the current policy, you can't deny that it's extremely relevant. There is already an established principle that some legal residents are permitted to vote in local elections, which is very, very different from out of the blue saying that non-citizens should get to vote.

For the record, I believe that only citizens should be allowed to vote or hold any sort of public office, even including commissioned rank in any uniformed service. But in a country that already permits non-citizens to vote, arguing that this should not be exclusive to EU-bloc nationals is not unreasonable, or at least it is not *more* unreasonable than allowing any other non-citizens.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Despite frequent claims of vote suppression, or claims that a limited franchise will be used to concentrate power, most voting systems seem to continually expand their voting base. This makes sense when one considers it, if party Y thinks X group will vote for them they have a strong incentive to find a way to give X voting privileges. One need only look at the US and compare how many people had the franchise at the founding, and count how many times the franchise was expanded to the present. Over time the voter base continually grows.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
The Green Party's integration policy spokeswoman, Filiz Polat, has called for local voting rights for citizens of non-EU countries
This, combined with the nearby call for "money for integration" reveals clearly what is this about:
Expanding the policy of letting EU citizens resident in Germany in long term vote in local elections (not that huge and abuseable deal, a lot of them don't care, and move in and out, solely on the basis of business needs) to non-EU residents...
And related to the other part, what's a huge group of non-EU residents staying in Germany in long term who may have interesting effects on local elections?
Yeah, that's what it is about. Well over 2 million migrants of various legal status, who will be naturally interested in increasing the influence of parties (even if not directly on federal level, but merely giving them cushy jobs in local governments) who are naturally supportive towards the cause of their own stay and government paid support, if not outright increasing the number of the likes of them as much as possible.

As for the obligation of children of "jus soli Germans" aka people given German citizenship just because they have stayed in Germany for a meaningful part of their childhood (kinda normal by New World standards, unusually generous by Europe standards to begin with) to choose between German and the other citizenship, to give some context, there was recently a lot of very related drama regarding a certain major demographic of foreigners in Germany that will influence the decisions in this regard.

That in turn imports a lot of political drama from Turkey to Germany:





TL;DR Turkish government, through its organization managing most of Turkish community
mosque's in Germany, does shady stuff that can be compared to what "handlers" do with North Korean delegations, with the objective of securing their support for Turkey's current ruling party. And as long as the people in question hold Turkish citizenship, well, they get to vote in Turkey, and so Turkish parties are encouraged to campaign and propagandize to them in Germany.
That's what the "obligation law" is supposed to curtail, and Turkey is not happy, which leads to this:
In practice, the pink/blue card has not been as helpful as expected. Users complain that the Turkish bureaucracy was not instructed about the existence of this privileged status and so the promised advantages never materialized.34 In addition, this status does not protect those who might own or inherit property in military security areas, ownership remains restricted to Turkish citizens. Turks have also expressed a lack of trust in the Turkish government to continue to offer the pink/blue card.35 For these and other reasons, Turks who naturalized in Germany will have preferred their own particular workaround: Renunciation of Turkish citizenship, then naturalization in Germany, followed by reacquisition of Turkish citizenship and preservation of German citizenship due to the domestic exemption.
34: Haha sod off Kurds!
In 1981, Turkey, aware of its identity as an emigrant country, changed its nationality law to allow—for the first time—the possession of multiple citizenships.27 Provision is made for the easy reacquisition of citizenship by Turks who renounce their citizenship in order to naturalize in a foreign country—they can reacquire Turkish citizenship without any period of residence in Turkey.28 A professor at Ankara University’s law faculty states that the allowance of multiple citizenships was enacted expressly in response to the attempts by host countries to integrate Turkish-origin residents by offering them citizenship.
So basically, the "obligation law" row is chiefly about Turks, and an issue that basically on the personal level, is a bureaucratic inconvenience for Turks in Germany, but on national level is a political row between Germany and Turkey, with integration of said population into Germany or Turkey at stake. And Greens obviously are siding with Turkey on this one.

Besides, about the local EU voting for non-EU people, well, Turks who don't qualify for German citizenship for various reasons also obviously are counted in that one, millions of voters potentially too, depending on the future of the citizenship row with Turkey...
 
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ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
As for the obligation of children of "jus soli Germans" aka people given German citizenship just because they have stayed in Germany for a meaningful part of their childhood (kinda normal by New World standards, unusually generous by Europe standards to begin with) to choose between German and the other citizenship, to give some context, there was recently a lot of very related drama regarding a certain major demographic of foreigners in Germany that will influence the decisions in this regard.

Just to clarify and compare:

In the United States, the established principles are that you are are a citizen if you were either born in the United States (including US territories) or if at least one of your parents is a U.S. citizen. Dual citizenship has never been forbidden, and has been explicitly affirmed by court precedents and administrative rules since the 1980s.

Note: The Oath of Naturalization for the United States *does* require that naturalized immigrants renounce fidelity to any foreign power; however, this is considered ceremonial and not a binding legal requirement.

- - - - -

In Germany, as in most European nations, citizenship is primarily by blood. Moreover, blood citizenship is more restricted than it is in the United States, with the current rule being that *do not* inherit German citizenship from your parents if you were born outside Germany *unless* they are either German residents or born in Germany.

Germany also has a limited form of "jus soli" citizenship in that children born in Germany to permanent residents of Germany (citizens or not) who have been residing in Germany for at least eight years. This citizenship is must be confirmed by "affirmative measures" prior to the age of 23 or it expires; such measures including living in Germany for at least eight years, attending school in Germany for at least six years, graduating from a school in Germany, or completing vocational/professional training in Germany.

Germany is also much more restrictive of dual citizenship. Those who naturalize as German citizens must denounce any other citizenship, and German citizens who naturalize in any other country are stripped of their German citizenship. However, there is a huge exception for EU nations and Switzerland; dual citizenship is permitted with these countries. In addition, those who enter Germany as refugees are permitted to naturalize as Germans without surrendering their previous citizenship.
 

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