United States George Floyd Protests, Reactions and Riots

[Marduk]

Turns out associating yourself or your organization with the Confederate States of America tends to be bad for marketing, investment potential, and public relations. Which are actually important for organizations to consider, if they aren't just trying to cater to people who support and embrace Confederate mythology of the war.

And that is the beginning of why the situation is a mess to begin with. Progressive race politics ruin everything. Because that's what this is about, current day (as opposed to yesterday's, it wasn't such a hot topic around the time all these things were named after Confederates to begin with) politics.

A more healthy attitude would be something along the lines of what European countries have towards their not even necessarily constitutional monarchs of history. Even though they definitely weren't democratic, and usually had the majority of population in serfdom. Sometimes on top of more directly analogous ethnic spats - yet you don't see Scots and Irish demanding UK condemn most of its pre-modern era historical figures, even though they could find similar reasons to do so if they wanted to.

 

[Bacle]

And that is the beginning of why the situation is a mess to begin with. Progressive race politics ruin everything. Because that's what this is about, current day (as opposed to yesterday's, it wasn't such a hot topic around the time all these things were named after Confederates to begin with) politics.

A more healthy attitude would be something along the lines of what European countries have towards their not even necessarily constitutional monarchs of history. Even though they definitely weren't democratic, and usually had the majority of population in serfdom. Sometimes on top of more directly analogous ethnic spats - yet you don't see Scots and Irish demanding UK condemn most of its pre-modern era historical figures, even though they could find similar reasons to do so if they wanted to.

The situation between the Confederacy and the Union was not some nostalgia for a lost monarchy or some issue with a foreign power, as your examples cite.

And part of the reason progressives have been able to make so much headway is because so many on the Right are unwilling to stop catering to the mythology around the CSA or personalities there-in.

It's not Dem voters usually waving the Stars and Bars at NASCAAR events, after all.

As well, when they continue to act like removing CSA monuments or names, the Right rarely cares to look into the history of who put said statue or memorial up or decided to name something after a CSA officer. Because the uncomfortable truth is much of the veneration of the CSA is the US South is because groups like the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK had a lot of control over what white kids were taught in school in the South, up till the Civil Right's Act happened, and paid for a lot of those monuments/memorials to be put up.

This is all rather well documented, but the parts of the Right that want to be soft on CSA stuff never want to address it, because it means admitting the monuments and memorials they want to protect were placed by people they want to disavow any connection with, and deflect to 'well, it's only happening because of progressives'.

 

[Marduk]

The situation between the Confederacy and the Union was not some nostalgia for a lost monarchy or some issue with a foreign power, as your examples cite.

True, and its not that in Europe either. After all England isn't just "some foreign power" to Scotland or Ireland, and the acceptance of glorification of pre-democratic rule in Europe is not confined to some widespread outbreak of monarchist sympathies.

And part of the reason progressives have been able to make so much headway is because so many on the Right are unwilling to stop catering to the mythology around the CSA or personalities there-in.

Wrong, if that was the case, progressives would have been doing much worse in parts of anglosphere where CSA is irrelevant and has no equivalent. Progressives just shift to complaining about other stuff with plenty enough success. See: Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

This is all rather well documented, but the parts of the Right that want to be soft on CSA stuff never want to address it, because it means admitting the monuments and memorials they want to protect were placed by people they want to disavow any connection with, and deflect to 'well, it's only happening because of progressives'.

The royalty and nobility of medieval Europe were not exactly liberal democratic heroes either.

 

[Bacle]

True, and its not that in Europe either. After all England isn't just "some foreign power" to Scotland or Ireland, and the acceptance of glorification of pre-democratic rule in Europe is not confined to some widespread outbreak of monarchist sympathies.

That's because, for better or ill, thos pre-democratic govs were legit govs of those areas, often for hundreds of years.

The CSA lasted all of 5 years, as a illegit gov occupying US soil, and all because they saw chattle clavery as critical to their way of life.

It's not the same at all.

Wrong, if that was the case, progressives would have been doing much worse in parts of anglosphere where CSA is irrelevant and has no equivalent. Progressives just shift to complaining about other stuff with plenty enough success. See: Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

No, it's absolutely true they do that in the US.

Just because they grasp other issues in other nations does not mean that the progressives do not use the Right's unwillingness to grapple with the what continuing to honor the CSA's legacy means and the lies the Right likes to use about 'removing Confederate monuments/memorials is erasing history' when the American Civil War will never be forgotten. What they really mean is they do not want the mythology the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK built up about the CSA to be erased and replaced because the locals still cling to it.

The royalty and nobility of medieval Europe were not exactly liberal democratic heroes either.

Again, they were legit govs with hundreds of years of existence and often had to defend themselves against other monarchies or invasions.

The Confederate State's of America existed for 5 years and solely to perpetuate slavery as an institution on the soil of the United States, in defiance of both DC and non-slaveholding states.

 

[Cherico]

That's because, for better or ill, thos pre-democratic govs were legit govs of those areas, often for hundreds of years.

The CSA lasted all of 5 years, as a illegit gov occupying US soil, and all because they saw chattle clavery as critical to their way of life.

It's not the same at all.
No, it's absolutely true they do that in the US.

Just because they grasp other issues in other nations does not mean that the progressives do not use the Right's unwillingness to grapple with the what continuing to honor the CSA's legacy means and the lies the Right likes to use about 'removing Confederate monuments/memorials is erasing history' when the American Civil War will never be forgotten. What they really mean is they do not want the mythology the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK built up about the CSA to be erased and replaced because the locals still cling to it.
Again, they were legit govs with hundreds of years of existence and often had to defend themselves against other monarchies or invasions.

The Confederate State's of America existed for 5 years and solely to perpetuate slavery as an institution on the soil of the United States, in defiance of both DC and non-slaveholding states.

yes you are correct it only lasted 5 years.

It has been 157 years since then, a 157 years since the end of slavery since the time of the civil war, and its time for every one to get the hell over it.

 

[Bacle]

yes you are correct it only lasted 5 years.

It has been 157 years since then, a 157 years since the end of slavery since the time of the civil war, and its time for every one to get the hell over it.

Tell that to the people who want to wave the Stars and Bars at NASCAR events, or to the people who want to act like removing CSA monuments/memorials/names is 'erasing history'.

Also, tell that to the people who do not want to acknowledge how much power and influence the KKK and Daughters of the Confederacy had over the culture of the South from soon after the Civil War ended, up till the Civil Rights Act happened.

It's not the rest of the US forcing the South to cling to those 5 years, that's something they've done all on their own.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Decidedly mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand, Saint Floyd's death caused a lot of bullshit that should not have happened. On the other hand...the Confederacy might be part of American history that deserves to be remembered, even if just as humans with some very flawed ideas and not 2d cartoon villains. But...

They deserve to be remembered in the history books, certainly, but *never* in a place of honor or admiration. In my opinion, this is a matter where the federal government should step in and put its boot down.

 

[LordsFire]

They deserve to be remembered in the history books, certainly, but *never* in a place of honor or admiration. In my opinion, this is a matter where the federal government should step in and put its boot down.

That would be a hideous overreach of federal power.

If you're that invested in the issue, just go to Virginia and campaign in favor of a/some distinguished WWII vets or the like.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

That would be a hideous overreach of federal power.

*shrugs* That's something we fundamentally disagree on, I think.

 

[Marduk]

That's because, for better or ill, thos pre-democratic govs were legit govs of those areas, often for hundreds of years.

As if the majority of their population had any say in it. In most it was a smaller portion of population than in CSA who had any say about that.

It's not the same at all.
No, it's absolutely true they do that in the US.

And yet sometimes they go even further elsewhere, somehow. Consider the 3 other anglosphere countries i mentioned, who were far more willing to implement "progressive" ideas in dealing with their ethnic minorities. Were progressives weakened there in relation to US, or perhaps the opposite?

Just because they grasp other issues in other nations does not mean that the progressives do not use the Right's unwillingness to grapple with the what continuing to honor the CSA's legacy means and the lies the Right likes to use about 'removing Confederate monuments/memorials is erasing history' when the American Civil War will never be forgotten. What they really mean is they do not want the mythology the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK built up about the CSA to be erased and replaced because the locals still cling to it.

It means whatever anyone says it means. The left blast a propaganda campaign implying a certain meaning to that since decades, that's the problem.

Again, they were legit govs with hundreds of years of existence and often had to defend themselves against other monarchies or invasions.

Legit by what standards? Certainly their own... Not necessarily by, in some more radical cases, the revolutions that replaced them with other forms of government. Even France and
Russia don't have this kind of attitude towards their historical monarchies and other unsavory governments, even though considering how that ended there, they absolutely would have reasons to. Its just a matter of predominant historiography, which, unfortunately for US, is currently dominated by the left these days, which in turn is designed to serve their current day political goals, which in turn means making it as likely to generate ire as possible. This is the core of the problem.

 

[ATP]

Its better than having a school named after Sherman.

If it would be tank,not general,that i would support such school.

 

[King Arts]

*shrugs* That's something we fundamentally disagree on, I think.

Lol. Fine I’ll agree to banning respect of confederates if we can use the federal government to ban pro lgbt and Atheists and other secularists.

 

[Zachowon]

Its better than having a school named after Sherman.

I say let's do it.

 

[Robovski]

 

[DarthOne]

Jesse Kelly

@JesseKellyDC

Did you know two people were facing 30 years in prison for firebombing a NYPD cop car during the Saint George Floyd riots and Joe Biden just stepped in to make sure they’ll be out in less than two years? Keep that in mind when you watch the January 6th committee.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Just to clarify the facts, it was an *empty* police car which did not have officers in or near it at the time. They are accepting a plea bargain for a substantially lower sentencing recommendation, but New York is a nonbinding plea bargain state and the judge has complete authority to issue any sentence he sees fit after a guilty plea, regardless of what the prosecution offers.

In addition, both of these individuals are attorneys. They are guaranteed to be disbarred after serious felony convictions like this, which is a pretty serious punishment in and of itself.

 

[BlackDragon98]

gotta keep their red guards out of jail and ready for the next Burn Loot Murder event!

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

snip

If you think any of this matters to the demorats beyond how they can keep their own out of prison, you must be quite idealistic about their nature.

 

[Captain X]

Justices won’t hear appeal from couple who pointed guns at Black Lives Matter protesters

The Supreme Court on Monday turned away an appeal by a St. Louis couple whose law licenses were sanctioned after they pointed guns at Black Lives Matter protesters near their home in the summer of …

thehill.com

 

[Cherico]

Justices won’t hear appeal from couple who pointed guns at Black Lives Matter protesters

The Supreme Court on Monday turned away an appeal by a St. Louis couple whose law licenses were sanctioned after they pointed guns at Black Lives Matter protesters near their home in the summer of …

thehill.com

That was a clear cut matter of self defense, and no one got hurt or injured.