Space General Space News, Image and Discussion Thread

JagerIV

Well-known member
There seems to be a competition for a Virgin Galactic flight being run by a site called Omaze.

It seems like a legitimate organization, and seems to give money to good causes wether or not I win long odds to actually get a ticket. So, I'm tempted to through $50, maybe $25 bucks as a donation to space, with an added perk of space flight.

But, I don't know anything about these people either, so if anyone knows anything else, that would be neat. If the whole thing is legit, well, maybe this is something other people might be interested in.
 

bintananth

behind a desk

Very quick to cash in.
I'm wondering who came up with that acronym word salad. The SPACE portion makes it sound like something most would be inclined to support without actually reading the bill or knowing what's in it.

If it's really targeting carbon emissions instead of just a blatant cash grab I can think of three rocket fuels of the top of my head which don't contain any carbon: hydrogen, ammonia, and hydrazine.
 

Urabrask Revealed

Let them go.
Founder

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Who else was stoked about the first commercial space flight? Not the FAA, who changed its rules to exclude Jeff Bezos and declare he doesn't count. Also from now all, all Astronauts have to get permits from the FAA, and their rocket licensed by the FAA, no more civilian fun allowed.


The timing is remarkably suspicious, the same day Bezos launched they changed the rules.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Who else was stoked about the first commercial space flight? Not the FAA, who changed its rules to exclude Jeff Bezos and declare he doesn't count. Also from now all, all Astronauts have to get permits from the FAA, and their rocket licensed by the FAA, no more civilian fun allowed.


The timing is remarkably suspicious, the same day Bezos launched they changed the rules.

Is this forbidding space launches without pre approval from the FAA, or is it just about the astronaut wings? I'm wondering if this is petty but harmless, and if regular civilian flights happen it does make sense that not everyone who rides a mile above the space line gets astronaughts wings. Or is this going to actually fuck over launches?
 

bintananth

behind a desk
Is this forbidding space launches without pre approval from the FAA, or is it just about the astronaut wings? I'm wondering if this is petty but harmless, and if regular civilian flights happen it does make sense that not everyone who rides a mile above the space line gets astronaughts wings. Or is this going to actually fuck over launches?
Space launches from American launch sites already require FAA pre-approval. This is just the FAA being petty about who does and does not get astronaut wings because space tourism is now a thing.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Zombie Spacecraft from the Apollo 11 mission may still be orbiting the Moon. The Eagle Lunar Ascent stage was jettisoned from the command module Colombia back in July 21st, 1969 after Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin made the first moon landing and was assumed to of been launched into a retrograde orbit which would've had the craft crash back into the Moon. But that assumption could be mistaken.

 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Virgin Galactic Spaceflights will soon be commercially available for the all time low down price of $450,000 per passenger!


The company previously sold tickets for a mere quarter million prior to 2014 and a fatal accident which put future flights on a long term hiatus.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
I mean, if he can fill seats at those prices, go for it. Especially if it pays for more seats and ships driving the per seat price down long term.

Hopefully this is the "hey, who wants to pay our development costs up front" charge. Like Kickstart backers. And that true operating costs are lower.

Found their quarter report.


So, in the second quarter, they made about $570k, with a cost of revenue, which should be "direct" costs of revenue, closest thing to variable costs easily available, of about $63k. That would be a base per unit profit of about 90%.

However, there is about 38 million in selling, admin, and general, and another 36 million in research and development. This adds up to a operating loss (per quarter) of about $73 million.

This suggests annual losses are currently in the $300 million dollar range. It also says they have about 600 reservations. So, if they were able to sell all of them the tickets in a year at the $450k price, that would raise about $270 million. Which is not enough to cover current per year expenses.

Assuming he sold for $450k, 90% of the ticket price was profit over the cost of the flight itself, so about $400k profit per flight, Virgin would need some 750 tickets per year to break even on current costs. At current capacity of about 6 passengers, that would take about 125 flights per year to break even at the $450k price.

Virgin Galactic is burning through piles of money for not super clear gains. They still have tons of money to burn, about 500 million in cash by the balance sheets. Some of that is pre booked tickets though, with deposit amounts apparently sitting at about 80 million dollars in customer deposits. So, if that's all pre paid $450k, they need to provide about 180 "free" flights before they can generate any new revenue.

The big safety blanket in all this is that their a publicly traded company, so the plan currently seems to be to sell $500 million or so dollars in shares every year.

They're hope seems to be to be able to run 400 flights per year per aircraft. This is something they can't do yet: the current one apparently has an 8 week turnaround, the next one which is supposed to come along soon has a 1 week turn around. If he can get 5 of those up and launch each one once a week, so say 250 flights a year, maybe boost up to 8 passengers for 2,000 flights per year. If the total costs could be kept per year to about $300 million, then break even cost there would be $150k.

So, getting down to $200k requires that scale of operation, which is still an immensely high cost. Then again, if they had $200 million in income, that could justify a market cap around $4 billion, which if Virgin could capture about half of that in stock sales, the stock sales could still cover all past (about a billion in current deficits so far) and a future capital investments. In which case at 2,000 seats a year they can potentially cover all operating costs at about $100k.
 
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Undertone

Active member
Is this forbidding space launches without pre approval from the FAA, or is it just about the astronaut wings? I'm wondering if this is petty but harmless, and if regular civilian flights happen it does make sense that not everyone who rides a mile above the space line gets astronaughts wings. Or is this going to actually fuck over launches?

FAA Commercial Space Transportation Wings are issued to *flight crew* passing 50 mi altitude, so FAA will give Virgin SS2 *pilots* wings. Branson probably could have sat up front if he wanted, but the pilots don't get zero-G float time, so... choices, choices.

Bezos made a decision to publicize the fact his flight was entirely automatic. He *could* have claimed he flew the mission entirely using Alexa voice commands and someone probably would have believed him enough to get FAA to pin CSTs on him. So points for honesty, at least.

Anyway FAA does *not* issue Astronaut Wings to passengers. This isn't just an FAA thing. The space agencies operating the ISS will still call you a "spaceflight participant" if you buy your way on.

FAA regulating flights is a separate issue. IMO Elon's little feud with FAA this year ended up with SpaceX wearing all the egg on their faces. And the regulations are getting less onerous: the FAA saying 'wait a minute, show us your data' is a major improvement from the Air Force telling you 'no way ever, and we don't need to tell you why!'
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Speaking of Elon, another SpaceX achievement maybe occurring soon.

US News said:
SpaceX founder Elon Musk said on Saturday the first orbital stack of the Starship rocket should be ready for flight in the coming weeks, taking the unorthodox billionaire a step closer to his dream of orbital and then interplanetary travel.

SpaceX in May successfully landed its Starship prototype, SN15, a reusable heavy-lift launch vehicle that could eventually carry astronauts and large cargo payloads to the moon and Mars.

The touchdown came after four prototype landing attempts had ended in explosions.



 

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