General military questions thread

bintananth

behind a desk
Well,everybody knew that french made everything better.At least - everybody in France.
P.S i dunno if it is joke or not,but i read article about french scientist who,after much work,proved that french shit is smaller and stink less then german.
I wouldn't be surprised if a French scientist actually did that and managed to show that French people have more efficient gastrointestinal tracts than Germans do.

At one point in time you, I, and everyone else alive was just a blastula with an asshole. Some adults are still nothing but an asshole.
 

Buba

A total creep
I was looking at WWII Italian assault guns/SP artillery, the Semovente series, e.g. 75/18.
I was fresh about reading the crampness of the Hetzer, as well as that its commander could see fuck all without sticking his head out.
So the Italian jobbies' three man crews - commander/gunner, loader/radioman, driver - made me wonder if maybe the Italians were right in not trying to cram a fourth crew member. More room for ammunition and/or less cramped.
Any known complaints from Italian or German users of the Semovente about the three men crew? Could the fact that it saw action almost exclusively in rather open terrain - NA, Italy, south Russia - colour perceptions?

In some Gurls und Panzer fanfics the Semovente 75/18 has a four girl crew. However, considering the size (and cuteness!) of Japanese HS girls let us let it slide :)
 
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ATP

Well-known member
I was looking at WWII Italian assault guns/SP artillery, the Semovente series, e.g. 75/18.
I was fresh about reading the crampness of the Hetzer, as well as that its commander could see fuck all without sticking his head out.
So the Italian jobbies' three man crews - commander/gunner, loader/radioman, driver - made me wonder if maybe the Italians were right in not trying to cram a fourth crew member. More room for ammunition and/or less cramped.
Any known complaints from Italian or German users of the Semovente about the three men crew? Could the fact that it saw action almost exclusively in rather open terrain - NA, Italy, south Russia - colour perceptions?

In some Gurls und Panzer fanfics the Semovente 75/18 has a four girl crew. However, considering the size (and cuteness!) of Japanese HS girls let us let it slide :)

I think,that they were right.And if they produce it from the start instead of M.13,on which chasis it was made...well,they would still lost,but at least would not be one-side massacred after USA send M.3 tanks there.Not mention Shermans.
And,in soviets they would lost less people - if they send it there.

P.S germans could made 3 assault guns for the same money as 2 tanks on which chasis it was made - interesting,if the same goes for italy.It would mean 3.500 assault guns instead of 1900 tanks and 500 assault guns made in OTL.
They would still lost,but maybe Italy would capitulate in 1944,not 1943? It would change nothing,but ...maybe not?
 

Buba

A total creep
Two questions:
1 - Darne machinegun system from early 1920s - the first GPMG? Why didn't it catch on? Conceptually too early?
Definitely not "eye candy" :) - maybe also a factor? Additionally - devised by a small French private manufacturer, while the French military preferred its own arsenals - hence weak marketing support.

The pictures show that it used the 7,5x54mm cartridge - note the straight - and not curved - magazine.

2 - the "machinegun Arisaka cartridge" - I keep on coming across mentions of the Arisaka 6,5x50mm cartridge being modified (i.e. different loading) to work better with the Type 11 LMG and its 45cm barrel; the cartridge being originally designed to work with 75cm or longer barrels and producing visualy impressive fire and smoke effects (and being too powerful for the gun as designed and manufactured - bad, naughty, Evul! Nambu!). Such text usually uses the term "weakened", with "different formula" which "allowed for full burn" ocasionally mixed in.
BTW - I read that this cartridge was issued to snipers due to this alleged full burn in the long barrels of their rifles, making them difficult to spot due to less flash/smoke/noise(?).
However, I cannot find how much weaker was the "1922G pattern" versus the vanilla variant ...
 
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sillygoose

Well-known member
I was looking at WWII Italian assault guns/SP artillery, the Semovente series, e.g. 75/18.
I was fresh about reading the crampness of the Hetzer, as well as that its commander could see fuck all without sticking his head out.
So the Italian jobbies' three man crews - commander/gunner, loader/radioman, driver - made me wonder if maybe the Italians were right in not trying to cram a fourth crew member. More room for ammunition and/or less cramped.
Any known complaints from Italian or German users of the Semovente about the three men crew? Could the fact that it saw action almost exclusively in rather open terrain - NA, Italy, south Russia - colour perceptions?
To be fair the Hetzer was basically a SP AT gun, not an assault gun despite the name. It was of course shoe horned into that role, but then German doctrine was to stick their heads out of the cupola for the best vision anyway. The 4 man crew came in handy despite the cramped-ness, as more men still were more efficient than fewer men with more space. See the 2 man turret vs. the 3 man for effectiveness. Making the commander the gunner too as well as the loader also the radio man seriously reduced efficiency even if they had more space. Single tasks even with cramped generally are done better than splitting attention between two different jobs.

The Semonvente was also only intended as a stop-gap until something better could be put into production:
The Semovente da 75/18 was intended to be an interim vehicle until the heavier P40 tank could be available.[3]
Plus it barely carried more main gun ammo than the Hetzer despite the fewer crew and smaller ammo:
Ammunition load was typically 44 75 mm shells and 1,108 8 mm cartridges, quite low by contemporary self-propelled gun standards

Main
armament
1x 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/48
41 rounds
Secondary
armament
7.92 mm MG 34 machine gun
1,200 rounds

Granted though the Italian SP gun served as artillery rather than as an assault gun:
Though it was technically similar to the StuG III, it had a totally different role, serving as divisional artillery instead of a pure assault gun.

Despite that it was still cramped:
limitations (namely its cramped interior and the insufficiently powerful engine in the M40 and M41 variants)

Judging by pictures I think they couldn't fit a 4th man at all:
365-semovente.jpg.9088038a3e51ef190e8ea59e975a8f38.jpg

Ammoracks_75-18_M41.png
 

Buba

A total creep
I later read that in the last of the Semovento series (with 105mm! howitzer) the Italians enlarged the superstructure.
The Germans impressed a dozen or two after 1943 and crammed a fourth crewman into it.

I agree that a different tactical role - more SPG artillery than assault gun - may have kept the Italians happy with 3-man crews.

@sillygoose - piccie added. It is visible (if one squints :p) that the front plate of the vehicle on the right (105/25) had been moved forward versus the vehicle on the left (75/18).
Somewhere on the web there's a top down/downwards angle photo where this is more explicit.
M43-_m42.JPG
 
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sillygoose

Well-known member
I later read that in the last of the Semovento series (with 105mm! howitzer) the Italians enlarged the superstructure.
The Germans impressed a dozen or two after 1943 and crammed a fourth crewman into it.

I agree that a different tactical role - more SPG artillery than assault gun - may have kept the Italians happy with 3-man crews.
There is a comparison picture the Italians took in this link. Yes they did enlarge it, but the entire hull, not just the superstructure; in fact the entire vehicle was actually lower:


Edit:
Somewhere on the web there's a top down/downwards angle photo where this is more explicit.
Yeah its in the links above.

Really makes you wonder what would have happened if they had a longer 75mm gun and thought of this in 1939. With their HEAT shells and a longer 75 they probably could have done some real damage. Probably could have dominated the desert for a while with both a tank hunting long 75mm version in addition to the 105mm. Still the 105 apparently could practically fire out to 2-2.5km with AT ammo!

Had they gotten the P26/40 in production sooner and mated their 90mm gun to it in an assault gun fashion they'd have had a true killer.
 
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sillygoose

Well-known member
Up to '43 the 75/34 would had been a killer - no need for 90mm.
The performance was underwhelming. I checked and the Matilda II of 1940 was armored enough to shrug off even the Italian 75mm HEAT shells. It would have been great against the bulk of British AFVs until the M3 and M4 showed up, but the heavy tanks would have been able to deal with it. The L46 Italian 75 would have been perfect, but they couldn't make enough of them even by 1942 just for the AA role they were intended for. Only about a dozen Semovente's with that gun were ever completed.
 

Buba

A total creep
OK - I concede that something more powerful than the 75/34 would be nice to have.
Matildas? You don't fight them (headlong) - you drive around them and leave them to die from fuel starvation :)
Also - how many exactly Matilda II did the British have in NA?
 

sillygoose

Well-known member
OK - I concede that something more powerful than the 75/34 would be nice to have.
Agreed, was just mentioning the reason why there wasn't something like that available.

Matildas? You don't fight them (headlong) - you drive around them and leave them to die from fuel starvation :)
Unless they charge you down in a defensive position.

Also - how many exactly Matilda II did the British have in NA?
Good question, not sure, but will try to find out. What period though?
 

sillygoose

Well-known member
No need to, unless you are simply dying to know :)
AFAIK it was never particularly numerous.
Haha, these sorts of topics cause me to get interested in weird niche subjects.
What I can find quickly though doesn't really say numbers, just a battalion (no numbers) in 1940 and in 1941 the Germans knocked out 64 in a single day with 88s.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Haha, these sorts of topics cause me to get interested in weird niche subjects.
What I can find quickly though doesn't really say numbers, just a battalion (no numbers) in 1940 and in 1941 the Germans knocked out 64 in a single day with 88s.

When they attacked Italians in 1941 and almost finished them,they have 50.7 destroyed by italians - they was very brave,they wait till they come close,schoot at threads,and if its show its side it sometimes manage destroy it.
 

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