First two shaft ship?
- Thread starter Buba
- Start date
Actually, the very first steam ship with propellers was 2 shafted, built by John Stevens in 1804
True, but Stevens abandoned the propeller after that and all his subsequent designs were paddle-wheel. Screw propellers didn't really make a comeback until the SS Archimedes in 1839.
Buba
A total creep
You win on a technicality
BTW - good to know!
Rephrasing the question - when was the second two shafted ship built?
Or better - when was such a configuration adopted as mainstream for warships?
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gral
Well-known member
Earliest twin-shaft warship I can remember is around the 1860's... HMS Pallas, maybe? Wikipedia page on her doesn't help, and my Parkes copy isn't exactly on hand... but it's around that time, mid- to late-1860's. Twin-shaft configuration was chosen because the RN wanted a shallow-draft ship for Baltic service.
Buba
A total creep
Trawling through wikipedia, the eldest two shaft warship I've found is this:
en.wikipedia.org
The text confirms what @gral said, i.e. that the RN specified two screws - this meaning smaller screws - for shallow water operations.
HMS Penelope (1867) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
gral
Well-known member
So it was HMS Penelope, then.
Mind that before people started feathering propellers(Propeller (aeronautics) - Wikipedia) around(IIRC) the early-to-mid-1870s, propellers caused so much drag when not being used that it was common to disconnect and lift them inside the ship - many ironclads had special gear for that(I think HMS Warrior has it, for those who can visit her).
I seem to recall Parkes commenting the twin propellers of HMS Penelope couldn't be disconnected and lifted inboard, which must have had a big effect on Penelope's speed when on sails.
Mind that before people started feathering propellers(Propeller (aeronautics) - Wikipedia) around(IIRC) the early-to-mid-1870s, propellers caused so much drag when not being used that it was common to disconnect and lift them inside the ship - many ironclads had special gear for that(I think HMS Warrior has it, for those who can visit her).
I seem to recall Parkes commenting the twin propellers of HMS Penelope couldn't be disconnected and lifted inboard, which must have had a big effect on Penelope's speed when on sails.
Buba
A total creep
Wiki says about HMS Penelope:
She was the only twin-screw ship ever to have hoisting screws.[8] Provision for the hoisting frames and twin rudders forced a very unusual shape to the stern, which unintentionally greatly increased drag.[9]
So, we have narrowed down the coming of twin shafts and screws to the mid 1860s.
Could it had been done earlier?
She was the only twin-screw ship ever to have hoisting screws.[8] Provision for the hoisting frames and twin rudders forced a very unusual shape to the stern, which unintentionally greatly increased drag.[9]
So, we have narrowed down the coming of twin shafts and screws to the mid 1860s.
Could it had been done earlier?
gral
Well-known member
Technically, yes, but why? Steam machinery back then is bulky and expensive; your backup is your sailing rig. Not much need of having twin shafts unless other considerations come into play.
Buba
A total creep
No speed benefit of two props? Not possible to go faster under steam?
Of course, I imagine that the coal supply simply goes POOF! when steaming at flank speed ...
gral
Well-known member
Not a big difference back then.
Oh, yes. IIRC, efficiency of steam machinery was around 3% at the time(modern Diesel engines have efficiencies around 35-40%). And that's at cruise - at flank it would be a lot worse.
Several American Civil War ironclads had twin screws, so they were reasonably common a solution to multiple engines by October 1861.
Yeah, USS Ozark in 1863 had *four* shafts
USS Dictator in 1863 was 2 shaft
The 1854 Stevens Battery design had twin shafts, but while she was laid down she was never completed.
Ohhh.... I found one! USRC Naugatuck was built in 1844, in service in 1862 as a coastal ironclad. Twin screws!
One thing I'd look for is ships with two steam engines, that usually means either paddle wheels or twin shafts for the screws.
USS Dictator in 1863 was 2 shaft
The 1854 Stevens Battery design had twin shafts, but while she was laid down she was never completed.
Ohhh.... I found one! USRC Naugatuck was built in 1844, in service in 1862 as a coastal ironclad. Twin screws!
One thing I'd look for is ships with two steam engines, that usually means either paddle wheels or twin shafts for the screws.
Yeah, gearboxes capable of redistributing engine power were really not a thing in the early days. One propeller per engine was the way it was done.
The dual paddle wheels of a side-paddle steamer were typically connected by a solid shaft that did not allow for independent use of the paddles, although some designs had clutches to allow for semi-independent paddling for greater maneuverability.
(Amusingly, it was found that clutched paddlewheels could not be safely used on passenger steamers because when a ship came into port, the passengers would rush to the dock side of the ship. This meant that the ship was habitually imbalanced as it maneuvered to dock, and differential paddling was just too dangerous to use when so imbalanced.)
The dual paddle wheels of a side-paddle steamer were typically connected by a solid shaft that did not allow for independent use of the paddles, although some designs had clutches to allow for semi-independent paddling for greater maneuverability.
(Amusingly, it was found that clutched paddlewheels could not be safely used on passenger steamers because when a ship came into port, the passengers would rush to the dock side of the ship. This meant that the ship was habitually imbalanced as it maneuvered to dock, and differential paddling was just too dangerous to use when so imbalanced.)
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gral
Well-known member
Most(if not all) of them were intended for river and shallow water operations.