Federalized Austria Survives First World War
- Thread starter Aldarion
- Start date
Buba
A total creep
That declaration included a military alliance with Russia ...
Yes, and? The US and Germany are military allies. Doesn't mean that the US wants to annex Germany. And in any case, a Polish military alliance with Russia would be a good thing for Poland since it would mean that Russia would be militarily committed to the defense of the Polish Corridor.
Probably,Kiereński was dude who made passionate speeches to soldiers,when Lenin agents agitated them.And did notching to prevent that.
After few years of empty talking,people would welcome almost anybody,including new tsar.
Ironically Russian soldiers wanted a quick end to WWI but ended up getting two bloodier wars instead: The RCW and WWII. And this is not to mention the Holodomor, 1930s purges, and late 1940s famine.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Who will the new Russian Tsar be?
tsar kiyrill romanov untill 1938 then his son become tsar vlamdir untill 1992 then tsarina maria
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Love to see the opening chapters 😎
Butterfly effect. Maria won't necessarily be born female in this TL.
BTW, @stevep, do you know why the Hapsburgs never acquired Bavaria?
Butterfly effect. Maria won't necessarily be born female in this TL.
BTW, @stevep, do you know why the Hapsburgs never acquired Bavaria?
Basically it was a primary rival to the Hapsburg's in Catholic Germany after the reformation and often allied to Bourbon France. Its not coincidence that the only time in the latter history of the HRE that the elected emperor was not an Hapsburg the new emperor was from Bavaria. There were possibilities that Austria might have overcome it but this would in turn have made them too powerful for the rest of the German states or the rest of Europe for that matter so it was always unlikely.
There was the attempt by Emperor Joseph in the 1770's to get at least part of Bavaria which resulted in the War of the Bavarian Succession, although there was relatively little conflict here with neither side being willing to have another big conflict. Possibly it could have happened if say Austria had won in 1866, although I think Bavaria was on the same side as it against Prussia then. Another option might be a surviving Austrian state making a separate peace in 1917 say and then intervening in the chaos of the collapse of Germany in 1918-19 and suppressing the communist uprising there. Although even then its likely to be that Bavaria would become a protectorate or an separate region in a federated state rather than directly ruled by Vienna I would suspect.
I don't like the butterfly effectButterfly effect. Maria won't necessarily be born female in this TL.
BTW, @stevep, do you know why the Hapsburgs never acquired Bavaria?
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Do you mean you don't like random changes due to chaos theory being applied (i.e. what "butterfly effect" actually means), or that you don't like causality? Because what @WolfBear said is actually the latter: due to the different timeline, it's very unlikely that the parents of any child born later on are going to have sex the exact same moment as in OTL, and that the exact same sperm will find the exact same egg...
So even without the actual butterfly effect, simple causality means that any child born some significant interval after the POD is just by definition going to be different. An "ATL sibling" of the person that existed in OTL, rather than the exact same person.
(The more affected the parents are by the POD, the earlier this causal effect will reach them. If Something happens in Russia, then it may take some time before the causal effects reach America, for instance. But a few years down the line? You won't be able to realistically defend any person born from then on being the same as in OTL.)
Yep, excellent description and analysis, Skallagrim! That's exactly what the butterfly effect is!
Another question:
@stevep @Skallagrim @Circle of Willis @raharris1973 @sillygoose @Aldarion If Austria-Hungary survives, are the differences between Eastern European Jewry and Western European Jewry still gradually going to become less significant over time? In real life, the shared horrors and tragedies of the Holocaust brought them together, along with the fact that Hitler did not differentiate between "more civilized" Western European Jews and "more backwards" Eastern European Jews like German Jews themselves did before Hitler came to power. Austria-Hungary is an interesting template question for this since it has plenty of both kinds of Jews: The more assimilated Jews in places such as Vienna and Budapest and the less assimilated Jews in places such as Galicia, Subcarpathian Ruthenia, and Transylvania. Are these two groups of Jews eventually going to fuse into a larger Austro-Hungarian Jewish people? Or will they remain two separate and distinct peoples up to the present-day?
@stevep @Skallagrim @Circle of Willis @raharris1973 @sillygoose @Aldarion If Austria-Hungary survives, are the differences between Eastern European Jewry and Western European Jewry still gradually going to become less significant over time? In real life, the shared horrors and tragedies of the Holocaust brought them together, along with the fact that Hitler did not differentiate between "more civilized" Western European Jews and "more backwards" Eastern European Jews like German Jews themselves did before Hitler came to power. Austria-Hungary is an interesting template question for this since it has plenty of both kinds of Jews: The more assimilated Jews in places such as Vienna and Budapest and the less assimilated Jews in places such as Galicia, Subcarpathian Ruthenia, and Transylvania. Are these two groups of Jews eventually going to fuse into a larger Austro-Hungarian Jewish people? Or will they remain two separate and distinct peoples up to the present-day?
But I do wonder just how many of the Ostjuden elsewhere will eventually adopt the ways of their "more civilized" Western European brethren. Assimilation, intermarriage, celebrating Christmas, et cetera.
Why they should? they lived in ghettos,becouse they wonted remain different from locals.That would not change.
In Poland after WW2 85% of jews lived such lifes becouse they wonted it.