ETC Guns and the Future of Tank Weaponry

[Husky_Khan]

So I keep hearing about ETC Guns being the next major step in tank design in this forum. What is ETC and why is that so, especially in regards to other potential future advances in tank weaponry or armor/defensive measures?

I could just google it but I prefer fomenting discussion.

 

[Harlock]

I thought Bilpro was the next big thing, binary liquid propellant. Heard they were testing it and had it working but it was a little too powerful for current metallurgy

 

[PsihoKekec]

It was also a bit too cumbersome for combat use and had a low rate of fire.

 

[ATP]

i read, that Korean next generation tank should have ETC gun,but it is all i knew.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Considering they just finished developing their current generation tank, well anything can happen in the next 20-30 years.

 

[Zachowon]

It will be some time before ETC becomes widespread. It still needs to be made smaller then it currently is afaik.
I know the US wont miss out on giving it a try.

 

[Tryglaw]

For the moment Russia seems to be mulling the notion of a 152mm gun on the Armata tank, conventional though.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Not going to happen anytime soon. Armata is designed to take a larger gun eventually, just like Abrams was designed to use a gun larger than 105 mm, but there is no indication that development of 152 even began at this point.

 

[Tryglaw]

Not going to happen anytime soon. Armata is designed to take a larger gun eventually, just like Abrams was designed to use a gun larger than 105 mm, but there is no indication that development of 152 even began at this point.

IIRC 152mm gun, 2A83 had been developed (from an earlier, rifled cannon as basis) for obj. 195 - the cancelled T-95 tank.

 

[Iconoclast]

So I keep hearing about ETC Guns being the next major step in tank design in this forum. What is ETC and why is that so, especially in regards to other potential future advances in tank weaponry or armor/defensive measures?

I could just google it but I prefer fomenting discussion.

ETC guns use a plasma igniter to achieve more rapid and more complete powder combustion. It's a way to get more pressure out of a given size cartridge, really.

 

[PsihoKekec]

IIRC 152mm gun, 2A83 had been developed (from an earlier, rifled cannon as basis) for obj. 195 - the cancelled T-95 tank.

I thought that was a rifled cannon used in feasibility study, thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Tryglaw]

I thought that was a rifled cannon used in feasibility study, thanks for pointing this out.

No problem. Russian weapons were always of interest to me.

 

[ATP]

IIRC 152mm gun, 2A83 had been developed (from an earlier, rifled cannon as basis) for obj. 195 - the cancelled T-95 tank.

I once read, that soviet made prototype of 135mm gun for next generation of tanks. Could they use that ?

 

[Tryglaw]

I once read, that soviet made prototype of 135mm gun for next generation of tanks. Could they use that ?

Maybe they've decided going 135mm from 120mm didn't offer enough gain in performance, and decided to skip it and go straight for 152mm... Just like they did upgunning the BTR series, from 14,5 KPV heavy mg straight to 30mm cannon. And next generations seem to skip 40mm cannons going straight for 57mm piece, developed from a high velocity anti-aircraft gun.

 

[Aaron Fox]

The thing is that ETC guns will take decades to supplant conventional powders in the realm of vehicle armaments. The biggest backer of the technology -the USN- was forced to abandon the US joint ETC project that kept giving them werid data due to the lack of understanding of plasma physics -and thus the simulation models- at the time. After a good ~3 decades wallowing in the dust, you're going to be forced to start from scratch.

So, the only way to ensure that you can get more boom for your buck -no pun intended- is to upsize the gun. We've practically reached the end of conventional powder capabilities because of chemistry and physics.

The only reason that the 130mm gun is being touted around is that no one in NATO wants to go for the 140mm unless they really have to.

 

[Zachowon]

The thing is that ETC guns will take decades to supplant conventional powders in the realm of vehicle armaments. The biggest backer of the technology -the USN- was forced to abandon the US joint ETC project that kept giving them werid data due to the lack of understanding of plasma physics -and thus the simulation models- at the time. After a good ~3 decades wallowing in the dust, you're going to be forced to start from scratch.

So, the only way to ensure that you can get more boom for your buck -no pun intended- is to upsize the gun. We've practically reached the end of conventional powder capabilities because of chemistry and physics.

The only reason that the 130mm gun is being touted around is that no one in NATO wants to go for the 140mm unless they really have to.

The issue with 140mm guns is the same with any larger caliber, having the room inside the turret

 

[PsihoKekec]

And reduced ammo capacity, along with reduced barrel life span.

 

[Zachowon]

And reduced ammo capacity, along with reduced barrel life span.

Capacity drops to half of what it is currently, which makes carrying more varied and issue.

 

[Aaron Fox]

And reduced ammo capacity, along with reduced barrel life span.

The sad thing is, they're not going to have much choice in the matter... given that gun-tech hasn't been improving for a while as armor tech improved...

Capacity drops to half of what it is currently, which makes carrying more varied and issue.

It's a sad but true cost that will have to be taken I'm afraid. We're talking two or three decades (minimum!) before ETC guns come online...

 

[Zachowon]

The sad thing is, they're not going to have much choice in the matter... given that gun-tech hasn't been improving for a while as armor tech improved...

It's a sad but true cost that will have to be taken I'm afraid. We're talking two or three decades (minimum!) before ETC guns come online...

There are still ways to improve the ammo. Find ways to propel the round faster. find ways to make the weapon fire faster. Something like that. The biggest defense against armor is CAS and artillery with the way armor is being developed. it is also harder for gun tech to imrpove