EU Dutch Farmers Protest Megathread

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
In Dutch (and German) we have a phrase for what the elite is doing (not just here, but globally):

Dancing on the volcano.

Not to digress, but this is precisely why I expect things to come undone mid-century, rather than at the very end. Sure, people have too much to lose and the elites have staying power now, but the difference is that (unlike the Optimates) these assholes seem dead-set on pissing it all away and (if anything) accelerating a cycle that'd have otherwise taken much longer to play out.

Between tut-tutting at the commoners as their gas prices surge, going around mask-free while punishing everyone else for doing the same in a "deadly pandemic", or (my personal favorite) parading a senile, half-dead octogenarian on TV and pretending he's POTUS... I'd say these guys are poking the bear both extra fast and extra hard, much more so than their Roman counterparts ever did.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Not to digress, but this is precisely why I expect things to come undone mid-century, rather than at the very end. Sure, people have too much to lose and the elites have staying power now, but the difference is that (unlike the Optimates) these assholes seem dead-set on pissing it all away and (if anything) accelerating a cycle that'd have otherwise taken much longer to play out.

Between tut-tutting at the commoners as their gas prices surge, going around mask-free while punishing everyone else for doing the same in a "deadly pandemic", or (my personal favorite) parading a senile, half-dead octogenarian on TV and pretending he's POTUS... I'd say these guys are poking the bear both extra fast and extra hard, much more so than their Roman counterparts ever did.

I think its going to be more of a see saw thing, these guys have a whole lot of money and a whole lot of insitutional power so I think dispite their incompetence their going to come back.

What we are looking at is the very apex of their power and the very birth of the wests populist movement. They will lose power but I expect the populists to be forced to bite and claw for every bit of power they get.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Not to digress, but this is precisely why I expect things to come undone mid-century, rather than at the very end. Sure, people have too much to lose and the elites have staying power now, but the difference is that (unlike the Optimates) these assholes seem dead-set on pissing it all away and (if anything) accelerating a cycle that'd have otherwise taken much longer to play out.

Between tut-tutting at the commoners as their gas prices surge, going around mask-free while punishing everyone else for doing the same in a "deadly pandemic", or (my personal favorite) parading a senile, half-dead octogenarian on TV and pretending he's POTUS... I'd say these guys are poking the bear both extra fast and extra hard, much more so than their Roman counterparts ever did.
I've always said that based on both historical precedents for this kind of thing (which offer a 'typical' time-frame) and current trends, the present period will only end in the last stages of this century. I stand by that analysis. This does not suggest that things just remain peaceful and "as they are", and then suddenly erupt. Rather, I expect a series of escalations. Everything points in that direction.

Look at the current situation. There's a lot of people in the Netherlands very unhappy with the government, but if you held elections today, the mainstream parties would still stay in power. People aren't willing to vote for a drastic change, because that's uncertain, and uncertainty scares them. This situation persists until enough people are more scared of the certain doom they face if things go on as they have than they are of the uncertainty that a drastic change will bring.

We're not nearly there yet.

We'll see failed, abortive attempts to overthrow the current order before we ultimately get a successful attempt. And in the mean-time, those failed attempts will allow the establishment to assume (essentially) despotic power "in response to insurrectionism". The January 6th thing is a taste of that. Just a taste. A little preview.

As @Cherico says: it's sort of a see-saw, where any populist success is going to prompt retribution. Let me suggest a scenario. Not necessarily what I think will happen, but the sort of thing that's going to happen. We're currently seeing a lot of shit and discontent. I'm not difficult to imagine the MAGA movement sweeping back into power in '24. What do they inherit? An ecnomy going down the drain. Even vastly improving policies immediately cannot arrest the crash. We're in a nose-dive, globally, and the causes are structural. If MAGA winst in '24, they win a poisoned chalice.

And they'll get all the blame for all the ills. And in '28, the establishment takes back power. Again. Things will be even more contested, embittered and radicalised this time around. More vindictive, still. If they can frame the next MAGA administration for the collapsing economy hitting rock bottom (and if they can "fortify" the elections sufficiently), then the establishment administration that follows may well get a majority in both houses. Even if only for a while, they can use that to push through their whole agenda. Anything they want. Federal "pro-choice" legislation. Court-packing. New laws against "domestic terrorists". Gun laws. You name it, they'll do it.

Not just for its own sake, but to infuriate their opponents. So that as many loose cannons as possible will fire off. And then they'll use that as an excuse to crack down even harder. Which will radicalise the populist opposition even more, "justifying" even more crack-downs... You see the cycle here? The goal will be to essentially cause an insurrection, or something they can half-way believably call an insurrection. And then they'll crush it relentlessly, and they'll basically outlaw the whole MAGA movement.

I think that before you reach 2030, there's a good chance you'll see new electoral laws that disenfranchise all members of "domestic terrorist organisations"... which will encompass the bulk of the populist opposition. Your enemies can't vote you out of office if they're not allowed to vote. (And if they try to use violent means... that just proves that they're terrorists, and that your punitive legislation is justified.)

There. How's that for a scenario? Again, I'm not saying that's the play-by-play. But that's how these things have gone many times before. And it works, too. Better than you'd think. It'll give them a new lease on power for a good 20 years. Far more brutal, overtly despotic power than they use currently, but still power. Not seriously contested.

By that latter point, we're indeed half-way through the century. And yes, that's when I'd expect the civil wars to start. But note: wars, plural. This, too, is the sort of things that comes in waves. I think it only ends by the century's close.



Let's see how it plays out.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I don't think it will be all victories for our new optimates.

After all our first Grachi brother still lives and we are due for a second one, and dispite everything they did the populars still got Marius in. Its not all doom and gloom.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
The goal will be to essentially cause an insurrection, or something they can half-way believably call an insurrection. And then they'll crush it relentlessly, and they'll basically outlaw the whole MAGA movement.
That may be the plan, but the problem with instigating violence is that it's always to at least some extent unpredictable; they may end up having bitten off more than they can chew.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
That may be the plan, but the problem with instigating violence is that it's always to at least some extent unpredictable; they may end up having bitten off more than they can chew.

I honestly give it good odds of working for awhile.

Another senerio is that the republicans get the presidency and completely chimp out and we go into official civil war. If this happens then the left has the urban centers the right has the rural areas. And then the left loses hard because of geography, their disgust against martial idenity and a lack of disipline.

Thats the senerio were america just gets it over with.

Its honestly the better senerio even if its painful because it ends with the urban elites obliterated and the country rebuilding something better with a lot more unity with in a pretty short period of time.

But I think thats unlikely and we will instead as a country go through a longer shittier slog where the left gets progressively crazier shittier and more despotic and worse until things pretty much break.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
My first reaction is to think that this is some kind of obviously fake cover story, made up by someone who's a fan of the Judge Dredd franchise, and that the real plan is to simply make the Netherlands and other countries dependent on imports, or just that this is being pushed by Greens with no comprehension of where food comes from. But, I don't know. As crazy as these people are, I can almost believe this megacity plan.
 

DarthOne

☦️
NZ Farmers protest livestock emissions tax as anger grows

Outraged producers gather to send a message to 'out of control' Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern

By James Macpherson | October 21, 2022 | News

The New Zealand government’s proposed livestock emissions tax was a “disaster” and an “assault on food production”, outraged farmers have warned.

Protests are planned across the country this weekend as anger grows at the Ardern government’s agricultural emissions pricing plan.

The plan would put a levy on the amount of methane farm animals produce.

A spokesman for farmers said the proposal was “a disaster for New Zealand farming”.

"This is really serious, not just for farming but for the whole of New Zealand and particularly rural New Zealand,” he said.
"It's going to have a massive impact on businesses right through New Zealand as time goes on. What we're doing is taking our food production away."
Bryce said slow-moving tractor convoys were being planned across New Zealand to protest the levy.

Police were aware of the planned protests.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said the levy was necessary for New Zealand to meet its emissions targets.

She insisted Kiwi farmers would benefit as global “first movers” because people around the world would be demanding food that was produced with a view to low emissions.


Meanwhile in New Zealand....
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
My first reaction is to think that this is some kind of obviously fake cover story, made up by someone who's a fan of the Judge Dredd franchise, and that the real plan is to simply make the Netherlands and other countries dependent on imports, or just that this is being pushed by Greens with no comprehension of where food comes from. But, I don't know. As crazy as these people are, I can almost believe this megacity plan.
Haven't you heard? Megacities are the in thing these days for totalitarian governments looking to prove they have the biggest penises.
 

Skitzyfrenic

Well-known member
It's great that the USA, UK, EU are all lowering their emissions, but unless Greta Thunberg goes after China or India, it's not going to get better.

China already dumps somewhere in the ballpark of 29 times the plastic into the ocean that the USA does.

Eco-fascists are going to fuck themselves. Their policies greatly weaken countries that abide by them, and then swoop in the countries that ignore them.

Of course, this is also an attempt to denude the rural areas of people and shove everyone into easily controlled cities. It's not even hard to see. How many of these 'green' policies utterly fuck farmers or people who live a long way out? And how many policies tank food production? They can't starve the Ukraine or Central China directly anymore. Then with Energy policies they make it impossible to indoor farm, or vertical farm. Now we're all eating crickets, which we can't eat half of and are typically full of parasites.

I don't even understand this obsession with eating bugs, there are so many other cheap, easy, low work options.
 

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