ISOT Dixie's Heart Can Stop The Mind. (2020 Alabama ISOTed to 1861)

[Buba]

While most international trade was done in gold, that's because they didn't have enough aluminum to facilitate trade.

Once alumium from Alabama floods the market, the price will nosedive
My asspull guesstimate is that Alabama would need 30-60 tons of gold if it wished to support a currency of its own.
I admit that I'm stuck mentally in the low figures for gold - hence I may very well underestimate how much of the yellow stuff is sloshing about UT Alabama
And of course, if/when Alabama joins the USA, then it'd be on the universally accepted USD anyway. Tricky negotiations ahead
1kg of gold = c.120 GBP or 600 USD. In Sovereigns and Half Eagles

 

[Agent23]

Once alumium from Alabama floods the market, the price will nosedive
My asspull guesstimate is that Alabama would need 30-60 tons of gold if it wished to support a currency of its own.
I admit that I'm stuck mentally in the low figures for gold - hence I may very well underestimate how much of the yellow stuff is sloshing about UT Alabama
And of course, if/when Alabama joins the USA, then it'd be on the universally accepted USD anyway. Tricky negotiations ahead

If there is a greenback, don't forget, it was something that got created during and as a direct result of the Civil War.
Also, I imagine that neither the downtimers, nor a lot of uptimers, will want to go to FIAT money.

You need lots of energy and aluminum ore to make Aluminum, will they be able to get the raw materials is the question?

 

[Buba]

to make Aluminum, will they be able to get the raw materials is the question?

First they have to set up the mines, then build roads (canals! ) to ports, and possibly the ports themselves.
Also - build smelters in 'Bama, or powerplants (hydro?) AND smelters elsewhere.
Need I mention machines to make machines to make smelting equipment? Machines to make machines to make mining equipment - or mine it with pickaxe and shovel? Or does Alabama possess such capacity already?
Several years will pass before DT made aluminium comes on the market. But there are heaps of the stuff - by DT standards - of the stuff in Alabama ...

 

[Agent23]

First they have to set up the mines, then build roads (canals! ) to ports, and possibly the ports themselves.
Also - build smelters in 'Bama, or powerplants (hydro?) AND smelters elsewhere.
Need I mention machines to make machines to make smelting equipment? Machines to make machines to make mining equipment - or mine it with pickaxe and shovel? Or does Alabama possess such capacity already?
Several years will pass before DT made aluminium comes on the market. But there are heaps of the stuff - by DT standards - of the stuff in Alabama ...

Yeah, from your comment I assumed they might have aluminum smelters up and running already.

As to coinage, well, I believe that some of your coins were in part sliver up to a few decades ago, that can probably be used for international trade, too.

What about the old cash crops of the area, sugar and tobacco?

Those were always very highly prized, and if there is inventory or a crop ready to harvest then that might help a lot, and potentially force the prices of those commodities lower.

Also, silver is IMO a better trade metal than gold, it has a much wider industrial use than gold, it is utilized in solar panels, some types of battery, as a bactericide, in electronics and in chemistry as a catalyst, something like 80% of mined silver IIRC had an actual non-decorative, industrial use.A landfill/junkyard full of microwaves can be a figurative goldmine, IMHO.

Gold is at about 10%, one of the big problems the British had with the Chinese is that China actually preferred silver to gold.

 

[Jarow]

a crop ready to harvest

Given the time travel occurred on Ney Year's Day, I very much doubt any harvest is soon to be available. Generally, those don't occur in the middle of winter but closer to fall.

Thinking about it, I think it was stated somewhere they didn't go back to the same day of the year. Hopefully an early end to winter (or worse, a re-beginning of winter) won't cause problems with agriculture (or anything else)

 

[Agent23]

Given the time travel occurred on Ney Year's Day, I very much doubt any harvest is soon to be available. Generally, those don't occur in the middle of winter but closer to fall.

Thinking about it, I think it was stated somewhere they didn't go back to the same day of the year. Hopefully an early end to winter (or worse, a re-beginning of winter) won't cause problems with agriculture (or anything else)

Not familiar with the area's climate, tbh, aside from "very, very hot".

Nor am I familiar with tobacco and sugar cane production, sadly.

 

[Jarow]

I don't really have much understanding of agriculture beyond the very basics, but I am from Georgia, which shouldn't differ too much from Alabama on a climate level. Summers are really hot, but winters are cool enough that we tend to get snow approximately every other year.

I believe that Tobacco was more a thing in Virginia and the other more northern Southern states, and sugar cane was more a Caribbean thing than something in the United States, but I don't really have enough knowledge to be able to compare potential UT Alabama's ability to compete.

 

[Buba]

some of your coins were in part sliver up to a few decades ago

All melted down in 1981. Look up hunt+brothers+silver.

from your comment I assumed they might have aluminum smelters up and running already.

Sorry. I was thinking about the massive quantities of aluminium which surround us today, in our everyday lives. A kitchen might contain a fortune in aluminium - from a DT's point of view.

This is the last gasp of the bi-metallic era, with gold:silver ratio at 1:16.
Silver prices will collapse after Franco-Prussian War - in part due to US flooding the market with heaps of the stuff.

 

[The Unicorn]

Yeah, but there might be companies that produce seeds there, or hippies/survivalists that keep stockpiles of quality seeds that breed true, rust resistance will probably be a big thing.

No might, the term you're looking for is Heritage seeds, and as an absolute quantity there's going to be tons of the stuff around, however relative to the quantity you need to feed everyone it's going to be negligible.

Once alumium from Alabama floods the market, the price will nosedive

Maybe, but I doubt it. Aluminum was too rare to reflect the real price and even if the price drops to say 10$/ounce they're not going to need

My asspull guesstimate is that Alabama would need 30-60 tons of gold if it wished to support a currency of its own.

That seems very high, that was enough for the entire US.
More importantly, Alabama has enough industry to have people coming to them to buy stuff in sufficient quantities to maintain their fiat currency. They might not be producing computers but everything from penecilin to boats, flashlights, cordite and explosives (not that people in 1861 didn't know how to make it, but not in the quantities or quality Alabama could maintain). 5 million people can produce a hell of a lot of stuff, and if people want to buy from them they'll want Alabama dollars, so the money will have value weather or not it's backed by any specie.

Also, I imagine that neither the downtimers, nor a lot of uptimers, will want to go to FIAT money.

Most downtimers won't care, and the uptimers won't have a choice.

You need lots of energy and aluminum ore to make Aluminum, will they be able to get the raw materials is the question?

Long term? There's plenty of the stuff lying around, the issue with aluminum is where it's most economical to refine it, not so much where you can get the material. In the short term (first few years) Alabama has a few thousand tons of the stuff in various forms that can be sold off, and until they can actually produce more the price isn't going to drop all that much and may even increase since there's now enough on the market to actually be used.

 

[Agent23]

Maybe, but I doubt it. Aluminum was too rare to reflect the real price and even if the price drops to say 10$/ounce they're not going to need

Aluminum is common, refining it was hard, though.

That seems very high, that was enough for the entire US.
More importantly, Alabama has enough industry to have people coming to them to buy stuff in sufficient quantities to maintain their fiat currency. They might not be producing computers but everything from penecilin to boats, flashlights, cordite and explosives (not that people in 1861 didn't know how to make it, but not in the quantities or quality Alabama could maintain). 5 million people can produce a hell of a lot of stuff, and if people want to buy from them they'll want Alabama dollars, so the money will have value weather or not it's backed by any specie.

Yeah, but the supply chains they needed to produce finished goods are gone.Penicilin and some other, early to mid-century drugs might be doable, and might be very profitable, the rest though, I doubt it.
Does the place have a chemical or pharma industry?

NVM: Chemicals | Made in Alabama: Alabama Department of Commerce

Bioscience | Made in Alabama: Alabama Department of Commerce

It doesn't look like they produce pharmaceuticals, but they have a decent-sized biotech and chemical industry.

 

[The Unicorn]

Aluminum is common, refining it was hard, though.

Yah, pretty much. However Alabama isn't going to have any difficulty refining it. Alabama might not be able to maintain modern electronics industry, but they'll have maps which tell them where to go dig from Cryolite (somewhere in Maryland) and for that matter plenty of labs that could synthesize the catalyst (and the required crazy scientists to actually do the synthesis).

Yeah, but the supply chains they needed to produce finished goods are gone.

Yup, but rebuilding them for most goods is not that difficult if you have effectively no competition other than people in-state who face the same issues.

the rest though, I doubt it.

Why? What do you think would prevent them from making boats, flashlights, washing machines, electric generators, dies

Does the place have a chemical or pharma industry?

Yes. I don't even need to check that because the answer is going to be yes for any area in the western world the size (geography and population) of Alabama for pretty much any modern industry. They will be missing some specialist parts of the industry, and may not have any large scale investment in the industry but they're going to have some, and they can build on that and the various university labs, especially since again they have no competition so what wasn't economical in 2020 becomes a license to print money in 1861.