Derek Chauvin Trial: summer 2020 electric boogaloo

[Zachowon]

Actually the Judge also said it might have given them a successful appeal to overturn the case.

Judge in Derek Chauvin trial says Rep. Maxine Waters' comments may be grounds for appeal

The judge overseeing former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin's trial in the death of George Floyd said Monday that Rep. Maxine Waters' comments could be grounds for appealing a verdict.

www.cnn.com

Waters was the one who lied about the Judge saying her words didn't matter.

Oh? Well still.
This is fun to hear

 

[Zachowon]

He literally did nothing wrong, and followed everything he was told to do and trained to do woth a T.

The first gets stuff wrong. The depraved indifference standard of the 3rd degree murder is what's going to hit. Because the Jury doesn't, and shouldn't, know it's legally dubious, as juries decide facts, not law. The law question already got answered and the jury don't even know it got asked.

The Judge will give jury instructions that basically list the law, give no context (like saying it's for psychopaths or stuff like that), and isn't allowed to clarify. From what I've found from the juror instructions, there is no explanation (and the judge can't give more explanation) other than this for 3rd degree:

(Source: Jury instructions: What the Derek Chauvin jurors are considering)

He'll get convicted (and should be convicted) on this for holding Floyd down while knowing Floyd was without a pulse. It's clearly a dangerous act, and it shows a depraved mind.

The one possible way out is if Floyd would have died anyway, and the prosecution did a good job on that part.

Why does he dersve to yet convicted? He followed the rules. Hell the paramedics didn't even want to do anything in scene because of the crowd, so he kept Floyd in said position because of the crowd...

 

[Abhorsen]

Why does he dersve to yet convicted? He followed the rules. Hell the paramedics didn't even want to do anything in scene because of the crowd, so he kept Floyd in said position because of the crowd...

No, he didn't follow the rules. Restraining someone you know has no pulse isn't following the rules. Cops don't get to do whatever they want, and this is beyond that. The guy is just not a good person, showing a fundamental lack of care for a person in his care.

 

[Abhorsen]

This is exactly what Maxine Waters wants. A Mistrial, so she gets to do the whole song and dance again. Chauvin is quite guilty of 3rd degree, but this isn't the way to do this.

 

[LTR]

So apperently Mxine Walter's statement is enough grounds for Appeal in the future.

Also now it is all up to the Jury

This is exactly what Maxine Waters wants. A Mistrial, so she gets to do the whole song and dance again. Chauvin is quite guilty of 3rd degree, but this isn't the way to do this.

FFS I barely have enough munitions and supplies to survive being besieged for two trials, much less a third one!

Californians need to stay in their damn state and stop spreading their Californian nonsense everywhere else.

 

[FriedCFour]

This is exactly what Maxine Waters wants. A Mistrial, so she gets to do the whole song and dance again. Chauvin is quite guilty of 3rd degree, but this isn't the way to do this.

Chauvin isn’t guilty of anything but arresting a black guy while he’s Oding on Fentanyl and then dealing with the black mob doing what the black mob does any time a good boy who Didn’t do nothing gets arrested. Third degree murder itself is a ridiculous law.

 

[Zachowon]

No, he didn't follow the rules. Restraining someone you know has no pulse isn't following the rules. Cops don't get to do whatever they want, and this is beyond that. The guy is just not a good person, showing a fundamental lack of care for a person in his care.

They didn't know he lost pulse because they were worried about moving because the crowd was threatening them and getting closer. Of he had a pulse you go to move your knee and the crowd moves in...
Bad things.
He literally did nothing wrong and followed what he was told to do from the start.
They even did CPR before the EMTs got there, but the EMTs wernt even going to do CPR on the ground because of the crowd. Literally.
He followed everything by the fucking book

 

[Terthna]

They didn't know he lost pulse because they were worried about moving because the crowd was threatening them and getting closer. Of he had a pulse you go to move your knee and the crowd moves in...
Bad things.
He literally did nothing wrong and followed what he was told to do from the start.
They even did CPR before the EMTs got there, but the EMTs wernt even going to do CPR on the ground because of the crowd. Literally.
He followed everything by the fucking book

Where are you getting the idea that the cops tried to perform CPR on George Floyd? The paramedics said that the cops had made no effort to provide medical care at the scene, even after one of them failed to detect a pulse.

 

[Zachowon]

Where are you getting the idea that the cops tried to perform CPR on George Floyd? The paramedics said that the cops had made no effort to provide medical care at the scene, even after one of them failed to detect a pulse.

I had heard different. My bad.
They felt it was unsafe

 

[Abhorsen]

Chauvin isn’t guilty of anything but arresting a black guy while he’s Oding on Fentanyl and then dealing with the black mob doing what the black mob does any time a good boy who Didn’t do nothing gets arrested. Third degree murder itself is a ridiculous law.

So first, it's not ridiculous, doing dangerous things to someone that you don't think will kill them, but you do, is clearly illegal, and should be, to stop people from killing people with unprovable intention. Second, there was plenty of evidence on Floyd dying to the restraint.

I had heard different. My bad.
They felt it was unsafe

And that's not enough of an excuse to put a hold on a person without a pulse. No reasonable person thinks that a person without a pulse is a threat, and holding down an unconscious man like this doesn't help with the crowd around them.

They didn't know he lost pulse because they were worried about moving because the crowd was threatening them and getting closer. Of he had a pulse you go to move your knee and the crowd moves in...
Bad things.
He literally did nothing wrong and followed what he was told to do from the start.
They even did CPR before the EMTs got there, but the EMTs wernt even going to do CPR on the ground because of the crowd. Literally.
He followed everything by the fucking book

None of this is true. Chauvin was told by another cop that he had no pulse. They applied no CPR.

 

[Zachowon]

So first, it's not ridiculous, doing dangerous things to someone that you don't think will kill them, but you do, is clearly illegal, and should be, to stop people from killing people with unprovable intention. Second, there was plenty of evidence on Floyd dying to the restraint.


And that's not enough of an excuse to put a hold on a person without a pulse. No reasonable person thinks that a person without a pulse is a threat, and holding down an unconscious man like this doesn't help with the crowd around them.


None of this is true. Chauvin was told by another cop that he had no pulse. They applied no CPR.

It was to fucking risky to do CPR in that instance because of the fucking people standing there.
It was BY THE FUCKING BOOK!
You saying we should charge officers for following the book to the T?

 

[FriedCFour]

So first, it's not ridiculous, doing dangerous things to someone that you don't think will kill them, but you do, is clearly illegal, and should be, to stop people from killing people with unprovable intention. Second, there was plenty of evidence on Floyd dying to the restraint.

Lol no. That restraint can’t kill you. His blood oxygen was saturated. His toxicology showed he was well at OD levels. And even then, there doesn’t need to be plenty of evidence that he died to the restraint. There just needs to be reasonable doubt that it wasn’t the restraint, and if you don’t think doubting the restraint is what killed him is reasonable you’re ridiculous.

 

[Abhorsen]

It was to fucking risky to do CPR in that instance because of the fucking people standing there.
It was BY THE FUCKING BOOK!
You saying we should charge officers for following the book to the T?

That they applied CPR was something you claimed, and it was wrong. I then pointed out that it was false. If CPR happened, especially by Chauvin, he'd have a defense against being a depraved man who didn't care if Floyd died.

The problem wasn't the lack of CPR, but the continued force applied to Floyd after he had no pulse and they knew that to be the case. That's immoral, and that's illegal. Chauvin caused the death, and Chauvin showed zero care if he lived or died. There's a ton of ways Chauvin could have acted that would have been innocent and Floyd would have died, but not this way. If he got off him after Floyd went unconscious: Innocent. If he got off after Floyd had no pulse: Innocent. If he applied CPR: Innocent. If he put him back in the police car: Innocent. Tons of things he could have done, none of which he did. He killed Floyd, and did it in a way that showed a depraved indifference to human life.

Lol no. That restraint can’t kill you. His oxygen was saturated. His toxicology showed he was well at OD levels. And even then, there doesn’t need to be plenty of evidence that he died to the restraint. There just needs to be reasonable doubt that it wasn’t the restraint, and if you don’t think doubting the restraint is what killed him is reasonable you’re ridiculous.

That restraint can kill someone weak, by compressing the lung. Does it kill a healthy person? No, but that doesn't matter legally. Normally a punch to the head won't kill someone, but if it causes a lethal aneurysm, that's manslaughter. A similar thing happened here.

And there was a ton of evidence and conclusive statements by the medical team. The defense tore up the use of force stuff, but didn't have much on the medical side, from what I recall.

 

[Zachowon]

That they applied CPR was something you claimed, and it was wrong. I then pointed out that it was false. If CPR happened, especially by Chauvin, he'd have a defense against being a depraved man who didn't care if Floyd died.

The problem wasn't the lack of CPR, but the continued force applied to Floyd after he had no pulse and they knew that to be the case. That's immoral, and that's illegal. Chauvin caused the death, and Chauvin showed zero care if he lived or died. There's a ton of ways Chauvin could have acted that would have been innocent and Floyd would have died, but not this way. If he got off him after Floyd went unconscious: Innocent. If he got off after Floyd had no pulse: Innocent. If he applied CPR: Innocent. If he put him back in the police car: Innocent. Tons of things he could have done, none of which he did. He killed Floyd, and did it in a way that showed a depraved indifference to human life.


That restraint can kill someone weak, by compressing the lung. Does it kill a healthy person? No, but that doesn't matter legally. Normally a punch to the head won't kill someone, but if it causes a lethal aneurysm, that's manslaughter. A similar thing happened here.

And there was a ton of evidence and conclusive statements by the medical team. The defense tore up the use of force stuff, but didn't have much on the medical side, from what I recall.

So...

As Steven Crowder showed.
Is false? He literally showed what was going on with Floyd.

 

[FriedCFour]

That restraint can kill someone weak, by compressing the lung. Does it kill a healthy person? No, but that doesn't matter legally. Normally a punch to the head won't kill someone, but if it causes a lethal aneurysm, that's manslaughter. A similar thing happened here.

Unless that punch or restraint was justified, which in this case it was. Then it’s not. And no, it probably won’t compress a lung lol. The knee was also on his back for at least part of it. He could breathe, he could talk, it wasn’t a wind pipe choke or a blood choke. And a cop punching someone and them ending up dying even though it’s unlikely is not something they should be charged for as manslaughter. Restraints, fighting, less than lethal weapons, everything that isn’t generally lethal can be lethal even just by happenstance. If he was justified to use force in that situation and that exact force happened to kill someone, then there shouldn’t be charges, not for cops, not for normal people. And again, “that’s what happened.” Given he was again, well into Overdose territory at this same time, do you think that’s been proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Do you think it’s completely unreasonable to say at this point “George Floyd died of a drug overdose”?

 

[Terthna]

Considering that Chauvin probably isn't going to be getting the death penalty, I hope everyone is ready for the riots after the trial is over.

 

[Bear Ribs]

At this point there will be riots either way. If Chauvin is convicted, it's proof that cops are murdering blacks and there will be riots over it. If he's not, it's proof the system protects cops that murder blacks and there will be even more riots about it.

From a riot standpoint, that is ignoring any justice issues, the best thing right now is for Chauvin to be found Not Guilty. There will be a round of riots then but with time they should die down. However if Chauvin is found Guilty, there will still be a round of riots albeit I suspect milder. Then, due to Maxine Waters, there will be an appeal with much better odds of getting Chauvin off and it will kick off a second round of riots.

Unfortunately the powers that be are deliberately stoking the riots. Even ignoring Rep. Waters, many people have noted that it rather appears that the prosecutors are deliberately phrasing their questions in order to produce inflammatory sound bites on the news rather than speaking as a lawyer normally would, f'rex.

From a riot standpoint the system coming down on Maxine Waters would possibly reduce any further efforts to inflame the riots more, but that could also set some bad precedents for free speech and if the news spun it right, could generate worse riots anyway.

 

[The Phule]

That restraint can kill someone weak, by compressing the lung. Does it kill a healthy person?

I'm reminded of the Eggshell Skull Doctrine.

This rule holds that a tortfeasor is liable for all consequences resulting from their tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition).

Your feelings on the Eggshell Skull Doctrine may vary, but it's a well established legal doctrine and unlikely to be overturned.

 

[FriedCFour]

I'm reminded of the Eggshell Skull Doctrine.


Your feelings on the Eggshell Skull Doctrine may vary, but it's a well established legal doctrine and unlikely to be overturned.

Only applies if the actions taken were torturous or negligent. They showed pretty clearly that they weren’t.

 

[Captain X]

It was to fucking risky to do CPR in that instance because of the fucking people standing there.
It was BY THE FUCKING BOOK!
You saying we should charge officers for following the book to the T?

You just moved the goal post here. Can the police and other law enforcement agencies just do no wrong in your mind?

Considering that Chauvin probably isn't going to be getting the death penalty, I hope everyone is ready for the riots after the trial is over.

It was never about Floyd or any kind of justice - that was just an excuse. I have no doubt that we would have seen riots last summer no matter what, just as we were always going to see riots this summer no matter what. Hell you had Democrats saying that people should still be going out into the streets even if Biden won the election last summer, yet still no consequences for any of them.