Quest Deep Periphery Quest (Battletech Sandbox Empire Builder)

[ShadowArxxy]

[X] Public Trial. Let Justice Be Done, Even If The Sky Should Fall
- [X] Public vindication for prior actions

I'm sticking to the reasoning I laid out a little while ago, including the pseudo write-in about retroactively awarding the decorations they should have earned for prior actions.

 

[edofthesquid]

[X] Public Trial. Let Justice Be Done, Even If The Sky Should Fall

Let's stick to what did us well for the Gem Conspiracy. We can "more sorrow than anger" this

 

[Bear Ribs]

[X] Public Trial. Let Justice Be Done, Even If The Sky Should Fall
- [X] Public vindication for prior actions

We are The Just already. This is the same kind of action we've taken before and it's consistent.

 

[CurtisLemay]

First, when I mention "Sources and Methods." I don't mean the people who perpetrated this act. I mean the people who caught them. We had to do buisness with a crimeboss and a computer hacker who has been implicated in some major fraud. Now, I am not saying they didn't earn the Queen's thanks, or pardon? But, what if those facts came out in open court. Or the fact that the Queen herself made another black operations unit to hunt down this one...? I can see all of that ending very well, not!

No, ladies and gentlemen. For the safety and annonimity of the people who caught them? This win has to remain quiet...for now. We owe them that much. It's their only real protection, and a sign we won't turn around and use them the same way my father used these defendants.

 

[kelgar04]

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[ShadowArxxy]

First, when I mention "Sources and Methods." I don't mean the people who perpetrated this act. I mean the people who caught them. We had to do buisness with a crimeboss and a computer hacker who has been implicated in some major fraud. Now, I am not saying they didn't earn the Queen's thanks, or pardon? But, what if those facts came out in open court. Or the fact that the Queen herself made another black operations unit to hunt down this one...? I can see all of that ending very well, not!

No, ladies and gentlemen. For the safety and annonimity of the people who caught them? This win has to remain quiet...for now. We owe them that much. It's their only real protection, and a sign we won't turn around and use them the same way my father used these defendants.

You *do* realize that it's entirely normal to have a public trial without disclosing operational secrets, right?

A secret trial is a farce -- if we're not going to have a public trial, we should just dispense with pretense and have all of the conspirators summarily executed.

 

[CurtisLemay]

You *do* realize that it's entirely normal to have a public trial without disclosing operational secrets, right?

A secret trial is a farce -- if we're not going to have a public trial, we should just dispense with pretense and have all of the conspirators summarily executed.

Yes, I do, but then we have to contend with the fact that their attorneys complaining that the government is hiding behind the Roost version of the Official Secrets Act. And that will cause a snowball with the press, who will demand these witnesses be brought forward. It's one thing when it's a few documents stamped "Secret." It's another when it's actual people who can be called into the witness box.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Yes, I do, but then we have to contend with the fact that their attorneys complaining that the government is hiding behind the Roost version of the Official Secrets Act. And that will cause a snowball with the press, who will demand these witnesses be brought forward. It's one thing when it's a few documents stamped "Secret." It's another when it's actual people who can be called into the witness box.

"This might cause inconvenient complications" is not a sensible reason for perverting the course of justice, especially since the potential problems you're claiming only happen *if* these demands emerge *and* we grab the idiot ball instead of handling them sensibly. The entire point of the trial is to demonstrate that we don't do this petty inside privilege bullshit that produced the Gem Conspiracy AND this small tragedy.

 

[CurtisLemay]

"This might cause complications" is not a sensible reason for perverting the course of justice. The entire point of the trial is to demonstrate that we don't do this petty inside privilege bullshit.

So it's BS to not want to use these people like the previous ruler used them? Nope, I am not buying that either. Sorry. I am sure you mean well, ShadowArxxy, but I just cannot go along with this.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

So it's BS to not want to use these people like the previous ruler used them? Nope, I am not buying that either. Sorry. I am sure you mean well, ShadowArxxy, but I just cannot go along with this.

No, it's BS to assert that a public trial is unacceptable because the defense *might* kick up a fuss and the press *might* double down on it and this *might* produce pressure on us to out active duty black ops people. There's three incredibly tenuous and speculative "mights" between deciding to hold a public trial and *anything bad actually happening*.

 

[CurtisLemay]

No, it's BS to assert that a public trial is unacceptable because the defense *might* kick up a fuss and the press *might* double down on it and this *might* produce pressure on us to out active duty black ops people. There's three incredibly tenuous and speculative "mights" between deciding to hold a public trial and *anything bad actually happening*.

Well, far be it for me to say *mights* are all we usually have to make decisions in life and gaming. Again, you have your opinion, and I have mine. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Thors_Alumni]

Well, far be it for me to say *mights* are all we usually have to make decisions in life and gaming. Again, you have your opinion, and I have mine. Let's just agree to disagree.

@CurtisLemay I may have missed something but just how sure are you that we need to keep the trial private?

 

[CurtisLemay]

@CurtisLemay I may have missed something but just how sure are you that we need to keep the trial private?

We should. Again, it's the protection of the assets who caught these guys, including the non-official ones.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

We should. Again, it's the protection of the assets who caught these guys, including the non-official ones.

We shouldn't, because it doesn't in any way endanger the assets who participated in the mission unless you *make up* a pile of arbitrary connections which don't make any actual sense and also assert that all real life methods for managing covert intelligence in a normal trial just. . . magically won't work because your made up reasons go otherwise.

 

[kelgar04]

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[ShadowArxxy]

Just as a point of clarification: I've explicitly double checked with Sunhawk, and no, Special Branch is not a black ops unit. They are Crown agents who report directly to the Queen; their job is basically to serve as top-level troubleshooters for priority crisis situations.

 

[Tolack]

I'm torn between the two options. On one hand I want to do a public trial to show the public we caught the people who grievously injured the Consort and Princess. On the other, since we're dealing with a vindictive operator that knows a lot of dirt, I don't want to give him a public platform to rant and rave. I'm too indecisive to decide.

 

[Thors_Alumni]

I'm torn between the two options. On one hand I want to do a public trial to show the public we caught the people who grievously injured the Consort and Princess. On the other, since we're dealing with a vindictive operator that knows a lot of dirt, I don't want to give him a public platform to rant and rave. I'm too indecisive to decide.

You could always make a combo vote of some type. Like a private trial for the leaders but a public trial for the rest of them.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it that may give me an idea. But I am going to discuss it on Discord just in case.

 

[Jarow]

Does he really know a lot of dirt now, especially on us? His unit was declared rogue, had their cover IDs released, and declared criminals. He was fired for protesting this decision. All of this was under our father, a minimum of over 20 years ago (probably closer to 25, if not 30)

Our administration has generally been open and justice focused, public trials best continue this pattern.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Does he really know a lot of dirt now, especially on us? His unit was declared rogue, had their cover IDs released, and declared criminals. He was fired for protesting this decision. All of this was under our father, a minimum of over 20 years ago (probably closer to 25, if not 30)

I really don't think he realistically has any useful dirt on us. This isn't someone who is an active black ops guy who knows where our skeletons are buried or has current operational intelligence of any sort; he was one of grandfather's black ops who got burned by dad being a naive, creduous fool.