Quest Deep Periphery Quest (Battletech Sandbox Empire Builder)

IceWing_mk1

Well-known member
Honestly, they're mostly "useful" for propaganda and ceremonial purposes.
I think if you've got a battalion of LAMs tromping around on the hull of your jumpship, or warship, and walking up to your bridge windows (and pointing boomsticks at it), you're going to surrender pretty damn quick.

I guess being close enough to accept surrender does count as propaganda and ceremonial purposes.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I think if you've got a battalion of LAMs tromping around on the hull of your jumpship, or warship, and walking up to your bridge windows (and pointing boomsticks at it), you're going to surrender pretty damn quick.

That is not a viable tactic by anything other than absurd act of plot. Considering that LAMs are minimally armed and armored compared to properly built ASFs (much less combat DropShips like ours), a "battalion of LAMs" attempting to reach any of our ships would have no chance of actually getting there.

WarShips are also inherently immune to this tactic by virtue of having naval armor that LAMs could fire their puny armaments at for all eternity without damaging anything but the paint job. Bridge windows? Dream on.
 

IceWing_mk1

Well-known member
That is not a viable tactic by anything other than absurd act of plot. Considering that LAMs are minimally armed and armored compared to properly built ASFs (much less combat DropShips like ours), a "battalion of LAMs" attempting to reach any of our ships would have no chance of actually getting there.

WarShips are also inherently immune to this tactic by virtue of having naval armor that LAMs could fire their puny armaments at for all eternity without damaging anything but the paint job. Bridge windows? Dream on.
I agree that ASFs beat equal mass of LAMs in aerospace combat 9 times out of 10.

But, that assumes that the ASFs are actually positioned to intercept the LAMs.

From my recollection of canon, as well as most of what we've seen in quest, there don't seem to be combat drop ships, or large scale 'aircover' left at the jump ships.

I'm not saying it would work 100% of the time, but you're telling me that a bunch of nerds like us can't come up with SOME way, with a star systems worth of resources and manufacturing, to get mechs to a ship that has to arrive at one of several fixed points in space?

Regarding armor, well, if you're on the ship, with a mech, just start ripping holes open. Turrets, weapons ports, cargo hatches and airlocks seem like a good place to start. Bring a crowbar or a hatchet (a mech sized Halligan tool?) if you need to.

Edit: First pass of an idea. A large screen\shield disc, composed of carbon fiber or radar\lidar absorbent material, similar to the sunshield from Sunshine, out in front of the craft. Chill it to prevent thermal detection. Add additional life support packs and fuel for the trip.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
That is not a viable tactic by anything other than absurd act of plot. Considering that LAMs are minimally armed and armored compared to properly built ASFs (much less combat DropShips like ours), a "battalion of LAMs" attempting to reach any of our ships would have no chance of actually getting there.

WarShips are also inherently immune to this tactic by virtue of having naval armor that LAMs could fire their puny armaments at for all eternity without damaging anything but the paint job. Bridge windows? Dream on.
They're not that good in a straight-up fight against their 'mech and fighter equivalents but when you consider the necessities of DropShip hauling they do alright. I've run a few test games with myself. Send a Leopard to attack another Leopard and the six LAMs will eat the other Leopard's 2 fighters. On the ground 6 LAMs can take it's four 'mechs or just bypass them and go blow up whatever they want before leaving. Once you realize how limited shipping is the reduced footprint pays off pretty well, which tends to be ignored in the actual game where there's precious little in the way of logistics and transport is only there to get to the tabletop game.

You're also rather dramatically underselling their weaponry, The larger LAMs tend to have ER PPCs and you're not getting a whole let better weaponry on an ASF. For anti WarShip operations LAMs really shine. Let's compare:

Red Squadron is a team of Star League heavy hitters, all Ahab AHB-443bs packing Antiship missiles. They can mount 3 each which reduces their speed to 1/2. They can throw 36 missiles at 30 points apiece for total damage of 1080, which is a heck of a hit, about 40% McKenna's armor on one facing gone in on shot. Not bad.

Blue Squadron is the LAM team and not nearly as large on the tonnage side. Actually they're the smallest LAMs made, just a 30-Ton Wasp WSP-100b, crummy things, team LAM hasn't sent their best here. So they're outmatched by tonnage 3:1 by the Ahabs, but they use LAM bomb bays so each one carries 5 antiship missiles which leaves their speed at 4/6 and a total salvo of 60 missiles or 1800 damage which makes all but the very largest WarShips instantly jump out-system to avoid them and even a McKenna will wind up with well under half it's armor left on it's strongest facing, or if it takes it to a weak facing it'll have no armor and severe damage at best. Overall far superior performance for a fraction the tonnage.

Adding insult to injury, the Blue Squadron LAMs only cost about 1/3rd as much as the Ahabs do.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
You're also rather dramatically underselling their weaponry, The larger LAMs tend to have ER PPCs and you're not getting a whole let better weaponry on an ASF.

The only LAM that carried an ER PPC was the one-off experimental prototype Screamer, and it had *one*.


Blue Squadron is the LAM team and not nearly as large on the tonnage side. Actually they're the smallest LAMs made, just a 30-Ton Wasp WSP-100b, crummy things, team LAM hasn't sent their best here. So they're outmatched by tonnage 3:1 by the Ahabs, but they use LAM bomb bays so each one carries 5 antiship missiles which leaves their speed at 4/6 and a total salvo of 60 missiles or 1800 damage which makes all but the very largest WarShips instantly jump out-system to avoid them and even a McKenna will wind up with well under half it's armor left on it's strongest facing, or if it takes it to a weak facing it'll have no armor and severe damage at best. Overall far superior performance for a fraction the tonnage.

The Wasp can carry five bombs or ONE Anti-Ship Missile, and even that's only a fanrule because the ASM actually takes up six bomb slots, and the Wasp's entire bomb bay is five bomb slots.

In comparison, an Ahab carries twenty bombs, three Anti-Ship Missiles, or two Alamo nukes.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Nope,
The Wasp can carry five bombs or ONE Anti-Ship Missile, and even that's only a fanrule because the ASM actually takes up six bomb slots, and the Wasp's entire bomb bay is five bomb slots.

In comparison, an Ahab carries twenty bombs, three Anti-Ship Missiles, or two Alamo nukes.
Actually the fanrule is what you just posted. Check Interstellar Operations pg 110:

The bombs and other external ordnance usable within a LAM bomb bay are listed in the LAM Bomb Bay Ordnance Table (see p. 112).

Note: A bomb bay, not multiple bays. This wording is clarified on the official forums, LAMs can pack one piece of any ordnance on that chart per bay, including Anti-Ship missiles, and pay no movement for it. ASF use an entirely different system and their rules don't apply to LAM ordnance any more than vehicle hit charts apply to 'mechs.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
That is just silly.
I can't disagree. BattleTech is prone to using an entirely different ruleset for every unit and it is a bit annoying but also part of the game. Tanks ignore heat from missiles and cannons that 'mechs have to track. Conventional fighters have to pay for reactor shielding that ASF get for free. Tanks have to pay weight for turrets but 'mechs get turrets for free. ASF get free bomb slots and are slowed down by using them, but also get free movement points. LAMs have to pay tonnage for every bomb slot but can use them vastly more efficiently than ASF and don't get the free movment points but don't don't get slowed down for using bomb slots.
 
Turn 44 - Thus saith the Lord of hosts

LordSunhawk

Das BOOT (literally)
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Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Turn 44 - Thus saith the Lord of hosts

You’ve been dreading this ever since the reading of Tyler’s will. Your eldest grandson is turning 14.

And will receive the bequest Tyler had specifically left to him, with strict instructions that the large crate was not to be opened, scanned, probed, surveyed, or even moved from where he’d had it stored in one of the palace’s storerooms.

And it was an extremely large crate.

And it was from Tyler.

The biggest pervert you had ever known.

For a 14 year old boy.

According to Willis, on his 14th birthday his grandfather had given him a set of extremely inappropriate gold cufflinks that Willis showed you in private. And you blushed like a schoolgirl, glad that your grandkids had never seen them.

John was very excited, of course, even if Jeremy was bracing himself to confiscate a massive porn collection or something equally unsuitable and the inevitable teenage drama that would ensue.

Hell, you figured that a porn collection was probably the least inappropriate thing in a list of things the old lech would think of gifting a 14 year old boy in such massive crates. You happened to know that Lee Electronics had used advanced robotics and prosthetics technology to build almost totally realistic sex dolls, after all.

This was Tyler.

He’d do that.

And so the adults, plus John, trooped into the storeroom. You’d put your foot down, none of the other grandkids were allowed along.

There was an envelope gummed to the crate, addressed to John in Tyler’s instantly recognizable spidery handwriting. You nodded to your grandson, who pulled it off the crate and slit it open with a pocket knife before pulling out some neatly folded sheets of paper.

He read it silently, then got the sort of expression you’d long learned from your own kids meant that he was preparing to pull one over on his parental units, You’d seen that expression on all of your kids faces… and Tyler usually had been involved, now that you think about it.

He doesn’t say anything, just folds the letter up after he reads it and ignores any subtle prodding to hand it over to any responsible adult. Warning bells are now going off.

“Can we open it now, grandma?” he asks, giving you his best butter won’t melt in his mouth who me I’m innocent smile.

He’s slightly better at it than his father at that age, you’ll give the brat that. You nod and both Jeremy and Willis start prying open the crate.

You brace yourself for excessive lewdness.

And then blink, jaw dropping open, even as you realize that John is taking a picture of your expression as the crate falls open revealing its contents.

An old stock car in absolutely pristine condition, and if your eyes aren’t fooling you, it’s the car that won four championships in a row about thirty years ago. And the door is signed by the driver of that car, Willis’ younger sister… who never bothered to mention this to you, now that you think about it.

Next to the vintage racer is a nearly brand spanking new stock car suitable for the entry level division of the full Stock Car Association racing circuit. With John’s name already shown on the doors and a striking AFGE sponsorship paint scheme.

And perched on the roof of said car is the sole Tyler-ism, a large envelope that proclaims itself to be a lifetime subscription to an art magazine that is, bluntly, soft-core pornography and utterly unsuitable for a teenager.

If Tyler wasn’t already dead, you’d kill him. As it is, you are tempted to dig him up from his grave and throw his corpse out a window just for the principle of the thing.

Well played, you lecherous bastard, well played.

Jeremy does confiscate the envelope, with surprisingly no push back from his son, who cheekily points out that the subscription doesn’t start until he’s 18 anyways and according to ‘Grampa Tyler’ is already reserved.

DAMN YOU TYLER!

There are other things going on besides that, of course.

You decide to go with the orbital Germanium refineries, no sense poisoning your planets after all.

Elections have been held for the Chamber of Delegates and the elected portion of the Senate. Annoyingly many of the problem child parliamentarians survived the election and will likely be a thorn in your side for a few more years.

Tragedy was narrowly averted on Pollux when a local man who happened to be a trained geologist was out for a jog one morning and happened to notice that a fault line was showing signs of letting go, as the stratigraphy of the fault was slightly warped and his keen eyes were good enough to notice. His warning comes in 15 minutes before the seismic geology sensors pick up the first faint signs of a pending quake and allows for that much more evacuation time thanks to the prompt reaction of local authorities.

And that warning was critical, it was a 8.9 earthquake, one of the largest ever recorded on the planet. A massive landslide completely buried a nearby highway that would normally have been bumper to bumper with traffic but which was empty due to the timely warning. As it is, what could have been a tragedy has turned quickly into a triumph, as the quake reveals several mineral deposits in the area that are economically valuable.

Seismologists and geologists are pouring over the data, as it appears the planet may be entering a slightly more active phase in terms of seismic and volcanic events.

On Castor, meanwhile, an organized crime syndicate has been busted to great fanfare. Mostly from late night comedians. And your face and your palm have commenced a forbidden romance normally reserved for the shenanigans of the Department of Periphery Studies or Pollux Man.

Who would have ever thought of an organized crime syndicate whose brilliant criminal plan was to literally rob schoolkids of their lunch money via rigged soda and candy machines in the schools? It would take the kids money, not dispense any product, then the ‘brilliant criminals’ would be called in and paid by the school to fix the vending machines they’d rigged in the first place.

Of course, their ‘brilliant plan’ was derailed when it became glaringly obvious that the only thing you had to do to fix the machines was remove a clear plastic sheet they’d placed to block the dispenser slot. A sheet that could be removed by, say, a first grader who spotted the duct tape holding it in place.

They hadn’t even bothered to use clear tape.

Morons.

Come to think of it, they probably had a future in electoral politics.
 

Artifex

Well-known member
Ah, thanks to the jogging geologist we averted a major crisis.

WriteIn:

You're inviting said geologist to your palace and to have a conversation with you. During that conversation said geologist provides you with a set of suggestions in regards to looking for resources on Griffin IV since that was one of his hobbies and he's been doing that for Griffin's Roost for a lark in his off-time.

You provide those suggestions to the department responsible for geological surveys and ask them to verify whether those suggestions have merit. The feedback indicates cautious optimism, it is now your decision whether you're willing to approve a go ahead on verifying those suggestions on Griffin IV or not.
 
Turn 44 - His yoke is easy

LordSunhawk

Das BOOT (literally)
Owner
Administrator
Staff Member
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Turn 44 - His yoke is easy

John has already taken his new race car out on the track and filed the paperwork to get his racing license for what is apparently called the Pro Stock Can Am series, which evidently the new car he has is perfectly suited for.

And then it turns out that Tyler had struck again, the car was already registered with the series, a team of mechanics and engineers had been on retainer for the last 5 years without you knowing, and that your beloved twin children had been in on the entire thing from the start since the car was registered as belonging to their racing company as their first stock car entry.

Of course, this does mean that you put the twins on Wadjet and Sokar watching duties as sweet sweet revenge for not telling their loving mother about what Tyler had planned for your grandson.

Watching them get bowled over repeatedly by an over-enthusiastic Sokar looking for more pets, or having to crawl into the most unlikely places to fetch Wadjet down makes your day. Then they try to pull a fast one by getting their kids to join in. Which feeds into your own plans, since this gives you yet more time with the grandkids. Never try and pull one over on ba, ba always wins.

Recovery work is ongoing on Pollux, mostly digging out a few landslides and clearing roads. A thorough geology survey is undertaken and it is determined that for various reasons the planet is indeed becoming more tectonically active. Not enough to be of great concern, and the geologists assure you that even at its most active Griffin's Roost is far less geologically active than old Earth ever had been.

Regardless, construction standards are being reviewed in light of this information and a few minor changes are made. Most of which are concerning road placement and protection against landslides. With the materials science you have it is trivial to build elevated roadways that are practically earthquake proof.

You are quite happy to see that the architectural style you’d promoted early in your reign is shown in tests to be exceptionally safe against the sort of threats expected due to the combination of materials and expected forces. The experts do recommend increased building inspections to ensure that they are, in fact, all up to code, especially in regards to facades.

Parliament then steps in and proposes legislation creating a fund for said inspections and amelioration of deficiencies, intended to ensure compliance with the regulations by making it a net zero-cost for property owners to do so. Any property owner who remains out of compliance with the building codes, however, would be held fully liable for any losses incurred from property damage because of said failure.

It’s actually a rather well written bit of legislation. The requirements are clearly laid out, written in easily understood language, and deliberately limited in scope. It’s no surprise that it was written by the Eldest. Unfortunately there is a faction within the Imperial Parliament who resents the Eldest, mostly because he doesn’t support their power grabs. Enough so that you’ll have to get out and push to get this passed through without poison pill amendments being added by the jackasses.

[]Push for it
  • -5 Support Chamber of Delegates
  • -5 Support Imperial Senate
  • Adds +1,000 to yearly upkeep
  • +1 Politics
  • Prevents certain events
    • Further, reduces impacts of natural disasters
  • Allows certain events
[]Let it flow
  • +1 Influence Chamber of Delegates
  • +1 Influence Imperial Senate
  • Adds +10,000 to yearly upkeep
  • +1 Politics
  • +1 Economic Event

You have a meeting with the Department of Mega Engineering team overseeing the colonization effort on Griffon IV and they would like some decisions from you. Specifically about whether or not the crown wants to push for a particular aesthetic for architecture on the colony, what preferences the crown has to the sort of ecosystem that they’d construct at the end of the terraforming process, etc.

Evidently they know what they want, in terms of habitability and such, but there are profound disagreements about just what angle to go for. Work towards a large grassland as the dominant environment? Forests? Go for jungles like on Griffin’s Roost? And what sort of buildings to build? Some want the colony to look like something from the far future, with soaring towers that look delicate yet are immensely strong, some want stolid industrial practicality, some want to go full bore neo gothic, others neoclassical, some want to keep everything as rustic as possible.

And so of course they are bringing you in to make the decision. No pressure!

[]Architectural StylesEcosystem Type
[]Ultra Futuristic
ultra futuristic.jpg
Savannah
[]Futuristic Industrial
futuristic industrial.jpg
Forested
[]Neo Gothic
neo-gothic.jpg
Plains
[]Neoclassical
Neoclassical-architecture-in-Poland.jpg
Tropical Jungle
[]Neo Colonial
neo colonial.jpg
Alpine
[]write-inwrite-in
QM Note - Pick one from each column for your vote

You also have a meeting with Admiral Benjamin concerning proposals for a proper fleet carrier dropship designed to carry an entire wing of aerospace fighters into action. The tentative long term plans are, once you develop large enough jumpships and perhaps warships, to use these dropships to provide solid fighter screens for the larger vessels.

There are three main proposals. One is highly minimalistic and, in contrast with most current dropship designs, relatively lightly armed and armored being effectively just an ASF base with the bare minimum of ancillary systems. A second is less minimalistic than the first, better armored and armed, but still lacking in capital firepower while the third has serious firepower from subcapital missiles.

[]NameCostMaterialsHPA/DSpecials
[]Liberum Veto Heavy Carrier215,619.04None16676
  • Armored 4
  • Command 1
  • Missile 6
  • AMS 24
[]Maiasaurus Fleet Carrier244,873.44None360190
  • Armored 12
  • Command 1
  • Missile 12
  • AMS 24
[]Piast Heavy Carrier Dropship279,067.04None499269
  • Armored 18
  • Capital 40 3
  • Command 1
  • Missile 6
  • AMS 24

Preparations are well underway for the first ever Pan Griffin Games. The inaugural site had been chosen on Capricorn and construction was well underway for the temporary venue. In the process of building the site, located up in the central mountains of the continent, construction crews stumbled across a somewhat grisly find. Buried underneath a landslide dated to about the same time as the Catastrophe is a crashed, crushed, and thoroughly mangled Triumph dropship in SLDF markings. The dropship was full up with crewmembers from SLS Morristown, the primary colony ship according to your records.

Odd that, because those same records indicate that SLS Morristown had departed with the rest of the SLDF flotilla weeks before the Catastrophe.

The dropship is so badly mangled and crushed that no computer systems or records remain intact. The badly damaged remains of the crewmembers who’d died in the crash are reburied with all appropriate ceremony and respect for the dead. But there are absolutely no clues as to why they were there in the first place. Counting the bodies, just about the entire crew of SLS Morristown is accounted for, apart from a few of the senior officers.

Combined with the crashed shuttle with the chief engineer of the SLS Morristown you’d found years earlier, this is starting to become a very… strange little mystery.
 
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Jarow

Well-known member
[X] Push for it
Event protection=good

[X] Neo Gothic Plains
No strong opinions here

[X] Neo Gothic
[X]Varied Ecosystem -- Earth didn't have one type of clime, but a bunch, let's try to do *that*.
EDIT: still slightly prefer the architecture style (especially for neo-feudal), but I do like the environment write-in

All three designs are going to be large dropships, no way around that (probably a good thing for the orbital shipyards getting built soon to build). My thoughts:
[] Liberum Veto Heavy Carrier
For it's size, this thing is lightly armored by canon standards. A bit too little armor for me (though if you really want a minimalitst design, this was made to round up to the nearest thousand ton needed to fill base requirements). As far as designs go, this is the modern carrier approach, protected purely by it's ASFs.
[] Maiasaurus Fleet Carrier
Overall, a reasonable design. Overall, the standard Battletech Carrier approach - enough weapons to discourage, but focused on its transport abilities.
[X] Piast Heavy Carrier Dropship
Ignoring the fighter craft, this is more combat ability cost efficient, and the capital attack can do a good job stressing the enemy (possibly causing them to launch fighters early, putting us in advantage on the fuel situation). Overall, the closest design to being an "assault" carrier to take advantage of limited drop collars for an offensive.
 
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ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
[X] Push for it
[X] Ultra Futuristic
[X] Varied Ecosystem


As to the DropShips, the Liberum is way too fragile and undergunned while not saving all that much on cost versus the other two. Between the Maiasaurus and the Piast, I'd argue that the carriers for this contract are all far too small for the JumpShip-deployed assault carrier role; these are going to be system defense medium carriers. In that role, heavy subcapital armament on a non-assault carrier doesn't make sense because it shouldn't ever be directly gunning for the enemy as opposed to standing off with its ASFs.

[X] Maiasaurus Fleet Carrier
 
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Tolack

Active member
[X] Push for it
[X] Futuristic Industrial
[X] Plains

Plains for sure. It'll give us a breadbasket world inside the core system.

[X] Piast Heavy Carrier Dropship
 

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