Quest Deep Periphery Quest (Battletech Sandbox Empire Builder)

[Jarow]

[X] Mecha Football GO!
Fairly meaningless (around $7k for interest rate returns), but politics is good for tax rate (if indirectly), so avoiding its loss is better.

[X] Agree
Saves us the effort of maintaining them.

[X] Hold them in secure camps
No reason to kill them. A bit more costly than I'd refer, but we're Just rulers, and these are simply soldiers

 

[Chaeronea]

THing is we can do that without going omni at all. Variant designs are a thing and they would use the same base chassis with different fittings and what not and we'd get that at a fraction the cost. Yeah you can't switch from one to the other in the field, at least not very fast and not without sufficient support but going omni offers a rather steep markup so you are going to get far less chassis to begin with


As for the ASF example, it is not bad but again the roles require different training but if you can use a load-out for a dropper chopper... well, why wouldn't it work against an ASF? (not really familiar with aerotech, tbh, so I am asking here)

[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] Hold them in secure camps

The reason that dropper chopper loadouts aren't as good as ASF loadouts is that they emphasise damage over range. Mostly this is due to trying for TACs (Through Armour Criticals) on their targets (please note that I'm talking table-top rules, I'm not sure how they relate to Sunhawk's system). To sum it up if you roll a 12 on 2d6 to hit a target in the tabletop rules the target has to roll to see if it takes a critical hit. In the aerospace rules, however, this is expanded so that if the hit does damage greater than one-tenth of the starting armour value of the location it hits then they roll for a critical hit regardless of the roll to hit, and in addition to rolling a 12 to hit.

Let's take an example. One of our Gyrfalcon II interceptors is going head-to-head with a DCMS Shilone and scores a hit with its Enhanced ER PPC, doing 12 points of damage. Because this exceeds 6 pts, or one-tenth of the Shilone's starting armour of 60, it rolls for a critical hit regardless of what the roll on the dice is, making a crit chance much more likely. If the Gyrfalcon had rolled a 12 for the same hit then it would have rolled twice for critical hits (one for the 12, and one for the TAC from doing 12 points of damage against a threshold of 6 for the Shilone's armour).

So far so good. Now we come to the dropper-choppers, who need to pack weapons that do more damage to use against a DropShip's armour. This is because the damage threshold for a DropShip's or ASF's armour does not lower as it loses armour - it is based off the starting armour value. So as a result a lot of weapons which will cause TACs on fighters will not cause them on DropShips - if the Gyrfalcon II in the example above had gone head-to-head with a Leopard CV Dropship (with a Nose Armour of 140 pts) and hit, it would not have forced a critical roll with the hit from its Enhanced ERPPC, because its damage of 12 would not exceed the Leopard CV's threshold of 14). So in order to force TACs on DropShip fighters designed as dropper-choppers have to carry big guns, and with introtech that means the AC-20. And while the AC-20 causes a hell of a lot of damage when it hits it has a relatively short range, so fighters which carry AC-20s like the Riever, Transit and Lightning can do a lot of damage up close but are outranged by ASFs with PPCs and LRMs. Woth omnifighters we can swap the weaponry out between missions.





[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] Hold them in secure camps

 

[Panzerkraken]

[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] POW Write-In: Turn them over to the Folk for trial, etc.

These particular dracs weren't fighting us, they were fighting the FF. Let them decide what to do with them.

 

[Wageslave]

[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] POW Write-In: Turn them over to the Folk for trial, etc.

 

[PeaceMaker 03]

[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] POW Write-In: Turn them over to the Folk for trial, etc.

As the attacked party the FF should decide what is appropriate for our Drac pirates.

If you feel like it offer to keep them in prison.

- An island sorrow need by dire penguins for the dracs to live on.
Realistically our war with the drac-o-pirates could last decades. Inter stellar wars last centuries in BT. Some consideration for what to do with long term EPW’s

 

[Ridli Scott]

As much as saying it hurts me I must say that I think we are overdoing with the "motor"sports.

[X] Hammertime
[X] Agree
[X] POW Write-In: Turn them over to the Folk for trial, etc.

 

[Chaos Blade]

The reason that dropper chopper loadouts aren't as good as ASF loadouts is that they emphasise damage over range. Mostly this is due to trying for TACs (Through Armour Criticals) on their targets (please note that I'm talking table-top rules, I'm not sure how they relate to Sunhawk's system). To sum it up if you roll a 12 on 2d6 to hit a target in the tabletop rules the target has to roll to see if it takes a critical hit. In the aerospace rules, however, this is expanded so that if the hit does damage greater than one-tenth of the starting armour value of the location it hits then they roll for a critical hit regardless of the roll to hit, and in addition to rolling a 12 to hit.

Let's take an example. One of our Gyrfalcon II interceptors is going head-to-head with a DCMS Shilone and scores a hit with its Enhanced ER PPC, doing 12 points of damage. Because this exceeds 6 pts, or one-tenth of the Shilone's starting armour of 60, it rolls for a critical hit regardless of what the roll on the dice is, making a crit chance much more likely. If the Gyrfalcon had rolled a 12 for the same hit then it would have rolled twice for critical hits (one for the 12, and one for the TAC from doing 12 points of damage against a threshold of 6 for the Shilone's armour).

So far so good. Now we come to the dropper-choppers, who need to pack weapons that do more damage to use against a DropShip's armour. This is because the damage threshold for a DropShip's or ASF's armour does not lower as it loses armour - it is based off the starting armour value. So as a result a lot of weapons which will cause TACs on fighters will not cause them on DropShips - if the Gyrfalcon II in the example above had gone head-to-head with a Leopard CV Dropship (with a Nose Armour of 140 pts) and hit, it would not have forced a critical roll with the hit from its Enhanced ERPPC, because its damage of 12 would not exceed the Leopard CV's threshold of 14). So in order to force TACs on DropShip fighters designed as dropper-choppers have to carry big guns, and with introtech that means the AC-20. And while the AC-20 causes a hell of a lot of damage when it hits it has a relatively short range, so fighters which carry AC-20s like the Riever, Transit and Lightning can do a lot of damage up close but are outranged by ASFs with PPCs and LRMs. Woth omnifighters we can swap the weaponry out between missions.





[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] Hold them in secure camps

Thanks for the clarification, but as we stand we are moving away from introtech and well into SL era weapons..

But while that means the ASF can be res-pecd between mission, the pilots is another matter. I mean, a squadron that specializes into dropper chopper roles aren't going to be as good in a dogfight and viceversa which is one of my arguments against omni tech. (admitedly if we used a "hardpoint" system of sorts you could replace the AC-20s for, say, an LBX-5, an ultra-5 or a RAC-5, assuming such a thing could be possible)
At the end of the day I feel Omni works for the clan Ethos, and clan training methods, I am not sure if it works for our and if we can afford the extra cost by and large (again specialists units that are jack of all trades, special forces types? yeah I can see that, but that would mean only a few true omni lines)

 

[Jarow]

(admitedly if we used a "hardpoint" system of sorts you could replace the AC-20s for, say, an LBX-5, an ultra-5 or a RAC-5, assuming such a thing could be possible)

That alternative would actually be a really big downgrade. AC/20 (or the LB-20x we tend to use given we have SL tech) is a lot more useful than any AC/5 variant (except maybe RAC, not sufficiently experienced with that one). Also, "Hardpoint" systems that can choose different weapons basically are slightly limited omnitech; the main difficulty is the targeting system and mounting for weapons with different firing profiles and recoil (which would 100% be different between massive short range AC/20 and small long range LB-5x).

In system, compare two designs we have: Griffon Assault ASF and Roc. They're not quite on the same chassis, but close. If we had omnitech, it would be easy to have one chassis shared between both. Mixing the two designs would be better than one or the other, with one escorting the other to opposing dropships; but we'd only need one factory to build both. They move the same and are armored the same, with the only difference being weaponry. This minimizes difficulty switching between the two. Learning two weapon systems isn't that hard, learning different maneuvering systems is where difficulties come in. Pretty sure switching between mere loadouts isn't that hard for properly trained mechwarriors or pilots, especially if trained to use each loadout.

Now, making everything omnitech is probably suboptimal. For example, we probably don't need scouts that can choose a different loadout to become a fire support mech. But there are some cases where the savings in number of factories needed would be very helpful.

 

[Chaos Blade]

That alternative would actually be a really big downgrade. AC/20 (or the LB-20x we tend to use given we have SL tech) is a lot more useful than any AC/5 variant (except maybe RAC, not sufficiently experienced with that one). Also, "Hardpoint" systems that can choose different weapons basically are slightly limited omnitech; the main difficulty is the targeting system and mounting for weapons with different firing profiles and recoil (which would 100% be different between massive short range AC/20 and small long range LB-5x).

In system, compare two designs we have: Griffon Assault ASF and Roc. They're not quite on the same chassis, but close. If we had omnitech, it would be easy to have one chassis shared between both. Mixing the two designs would be better than one or the other, with one escorting the other to opposing dropships; but we'd only need one factory to build both. They move the same and are armored the same, with the only difference being weaponry. This minimizes difficulty switching between the two. Learning two weapon systems isn't that hard, learning different maneuvering systems is where difficulties come in. Pretty sure switching between mere loadouts isn't that hard for properly trained mechwarriors or pilots, especially if trained to use each loadout.

Now, making everything omnitech is probably suboptimal. For example, we probably don't need scouts that can choose a different loadout to become a fire support mech. But there are some cases where the savings in number of factories needed would be very helpful.

I understand that, ultimately that is why I am trying to see if a hardpoint system is viable, we could get some degree of omni at a far lesser cost because the fact that the omni modifier is rather steep iirc regarding hull cost, so while being able to move from dropper chopper to space superiority is attractive, if the cost is to have, say, half the number of hulls we'd have otherwise.... it might not be attractive.
A hardpoint system would be far less cost intensive than an omnipod, at least by logic, so you'd prolly need a pod weapon (ballistic pod?) but the idea would be having a lower markup than omni and that it could fit us far better even if the weapon switch would be less than optimal than, say, an ERPPC (OTOH you could switch an AC-20 with gauss guns)
Though my argument about dropper chopper to space superiority and vice-versa was more or less a matter of training and doctrine, so we are in agreement, by and large

 

[PeaceMaker 03]

MML is one way to optimize, along with Omni weapons.
”Acme Mounts” is something I have used is make it so target systems can use both SRM and LRm, then create a switchable 5 ton Mount for missiles.
2- SRM4 and 1 ton Ammo
Switch able with
2- LRM5 and 1-ton Ammo

A few tech tree research levels and maybe a laser mount. ( and targeting system ).
1- Large laser and 3- Medium laser w/2- heat sink.

Not Omni-tech, but allow slight changes to combat profile. Require new armor plates to adjust for different weapons, because the ”Acme mounts” only work left right torso location.

From an RPG way back.

-Note side effect was the mandatory armor changes became a logistic problem once we had multiple mechs on a Union.

 

[Jarow]

Fortunately for us, cost isn't a big concern (except for dropships, where it's starting to get there, but those don't have omnitech capability). ASFs are a lot more limited by factories than money, so they're a pretty good place for it to be used. On the other hand, not much with similar chassis except for the superheavy fighters, so omnitech is probably going to be more a gimmick than anything truly useful for us (unless there's some kind of in-system benefit we don't know about yet).

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Omake, omake, omake!

Governess class JumpShip HMS Sound of Music

"We really do have to go serenade the wonderful voting public who decided to name our first JumpShip this. But at least it's not something really dumb, like 'Jumpy McJumperson'."

As the Powers That Be had felt that the newest and most critical piece of space infrastructure in the entire Empire -- the brand-new JumpShip yard -- absolutely must be placed well inside the jump limit and far away from all stable pirate points, launching a brand-new JumpShip meant an agonizingly delayed process of being physically towed at 1G by a dozen specialized DropShips, while being escorted by eight combat Droppers "just in case".

The Sound of Music's maiden voyage would be a brief test jump that didn't even exit the system, instead merely flitting from one point outside the system's jump limit to another point outside the jump limit. A second team of tow ships was already waiting near the planned exit point, and would bring them all the way back in-system for a comprehensive recheck of all ship systems, especially the drive core. It was probably the most excitingly boring thing in Captain Davis' entire naval career; having their own JumpShip capacity was a massive strategic. . . but given their world's history with K-F catastrophe, they were being painfully careful with the test protocols.

"The hills are aliiiiiiiive, with the sound of musiiiiiiic...."

"I said serenade the idiots who voted the name onto my poor ship, not your fellow crew, Lieutenant!"

 

[Knowledgeispower]

I will note that at .1Gs worth of constant acceleration/deceleration from it's own engines it actually wouldn't take all that long in the grand scheme of things for a jumpship to head out to the jump point all by itself. Sure compared to dropships or warships it would be slow but compared to what we have now it would be ridiculously fast. Plus once you get it out there other than sending it back to the yard for routine maintenance every few years you basically don't have to move it in system since can you rotate members of the crew on and off the ship via dropships which given how we'll want to use our first few jumpships to help train a sizable core of qualified personnel is something we'll very much doing

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I will note that at .1Gs worth of constant acceleration/deceleration from it's own engines it actually wouldn't take all that long in the grand scheme of things for a jumpship to head out to the jump point all by itself. Sure compared to dropships or warships it would be slow but compared to what we have now it would be ridiculously fast. Plus once you get it out there other than sending it back to the yard for routine maintenance every few years you basically don't have to move it in system since can you rotate members of the crew on and off the ship via dropships which given how we'll want to use our first few jumpships to help train a sizable core of qualified personnel is something we'll very much doing

For the non-canon omake, this is the very first non-experimental JumpShip built in our system; they're being extra-careful, and they want to have tow ships available on both ends of the jump in case something goes wrong. This is not a normal launch procedure.

 

[Blasterbot]

[X] Mecha Football GO!
[X] Agree
[X] Hold them in secure camps

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Secure camps seems like a reasonable short-term solution. We do need a long term solution; some form of cultural integration and assimilation program for the ones who aren't hardcore fanatics, appropriate high-security labor camps for those who are.

(Even in the modern world as opposed to Battletech, POW labor programs are in fact absolutely legal under the rules of war, so long as the labor is paid and is not " "dangerous, unhealthy, or degrading".)

 

[Chaos Blade]

I've been thinking how to call Mech footbal, the easy Mechball fells a bit too meh, so maybe Myomerball? We really should come up with a proper name, right?

 

[PeaceMaker 03]

”Titanball” for naming the new mech football sport.

 

[IceWing_mk1]

”Titanball” for naming the new mech football sport.

Earth shattering impacts when players hit each other. Massive sanctioned violence... No Pads.

Just call it Rugby and be done with it.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

In AD 2970. . .

. . . war was beginning.


Lord Kurita: What happen?

Chu-i: Somebody set us up the bomb.

Tai-i: We get signal.

Lord Kurita: What!

Tai-i: Main screen turn on.

Lord Kurita: It's YOU!

GRIFFONS: How are you gentlemen!!!

GRIFFONS: All your base are belong to us.

GRIFFONS: You are on the way to destruction.

Lord Kurita: What you say!!!

GRIFFONS: You have no chance to survive, make your time.

GRIFFONS: HA HA HA HA HA!

Tai-i: Lord!

Lord Kurita: Take off every BattleMech!

Lord Kurita: You know what you doing.

Lord Kurita: Move BattleMech.

Lord Kurita: For Great Justice!