Debate on the U.S.'s long term strategic and technological goals in an increasingly multi-polar world.

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Very good point about the unsustainable levels of defense spending needed for all the geopolitical goals and commitments DC and the US military feels it has to deal with.
Frankly, military spending needs to be reduced as a result of procurement 'redesign'. The bloat is bureaucratic and needs to be trimmed with a flame thrower.

However, military reduction will, in no way, help the US fiscally without eliminating all the crap that just got passed along with a bunch of social spending.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Frankly, military spending needs to be reduced as a result of procurement 'redesign'. The bloat is bureaucratic and needs to be trimmed with a flame thrower.

However, military reduction will, in no way, help the US fiscally without eliminating all the crap that just got passed along with a bunch of social spending.
Oh, I agree redesigning the procurement process to be less wasteful is an absolute must.

However, the simple fact is the US has overcommitted and overextended itself and it's military, relative to what it can actually sustain long term.

Because the unwritten caveat to the idea that defense spending is only a fraction of the domestic spending issues is that it ignores money funneled to black projects, which the public rarely if ever sees a receipt for and which the have little means to account for in the actual budgetary calculations.

Moving to more drones is definitely a must, for budgetary and manpower reasons, and the US public deserve to actually see a return on investment of their defense spending, not simply be continually asked to increase it.
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
Oh, I agree redesigning the procurement process to be less wasteful is an absolute must.

However, the simple fact is the US has overcommitted and overextended itself and it's military, relative to what it can actually sustain long term.

Because the unwritten caveat to the idea that defense spending is only a fraction of the domestic spending issues is that it ignores money funneled to black projects, which the public rarely if ever sees a receipt for and which the have little means to account for in the actual budgetary calculations.

Moving to more drones is definitely a must, for budgetary and manpower reasons, and the US public deserve to actually see a return on investment of their defense spending, not simply be continually asked to increase it.

You'd think that they could fit the money needed for black projects inside the current military budget.

Budgetary issues are also part of the reason why encouraging population growth is the answer.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
You'd think that they could fit the money needed for black projects inside the current military budget.

Budgetary issues are also part of the reason why encouraging population growth is the answer.
Encouraging pop grow is an answer to budgetary issue, that is true.

However, that is a long term proposal that doesn't do much to address the increasing gulf between what the US gov/military sees it's goals/commitments as vs what is actually sustainable in the long term.

As for the black budgets, only the Senate Intel Committee sees the redacted stuff, and that stuff usually doesn't get listed on NDAAs or budgets the public gets to see. So we have no way to know how much money is actually used on black projects, if it being spent wisely, and if the projects in question are actually going to be worth said cost.

Like we spent 19 billion or so on the 'Future Weapons System' that was supposed to be a combo of anti-tank and direct/indirect fire artillery; we have exactly 0 of them in the inventory, and 0 are in production, 0 on order, and the US tax payer isn't going to get a refund from it.

I mean I guess that would be one way the funnel money to black projects; create boondoggles that seemingly produce nothing but take a lot of tax payer dollars, then quietly shift where said money actually goes via black ink.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
One problem there is the beancounters' desire for "do everything" solutions which wind up costing way more than a suite of specialized tools would.
Well that, and fights over who's Congressional district is going to be where the project is based/run.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
We arnt really overextended.

We have the most powerful navy.
The Pacific is a huge issue all the branches are focusing as is Europe.

It is the time for things to start changing heavily for all the branches to adjust.
Mainly Army and Air Force
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
We arnt really overextended.

We have the most powerful navy.
The Pacific is a huge issue all the branches are focusing as is Europe.

It is the time for things to start changing heavily for all the branches to adjust.
Mainly Army and Air Force
We are overextended, oddly enough. Our ships are not getting the overhauls and deep maintenance they need, largely because of Congress's penny-pinching. We need a lot of ships to actually cover the obligations we're forcing the USN though, and what we have isn't enough.

Also, China knows that if it did anything to seriously rock the boat, it'll be facing Dynasty Collapse: Nuclear Edition soon enough. Russia on the other hand, has been proving to be something of a threat that has to be dealt with.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
We are overextended, oddly enough. Our ships are not getting the overhauls and deep maintenance they need, largely because of Congress's penny-pinching. We need a lot of ships to actually cover the obligations we're forcing the USN though, and what we have isn't enough.

Also, China knows that if it did anything to seriously rock the boat, it'll be facing Dynasty Collapse: Nuclear Edition soon enough. Russia on the other hand, has been proving to be something of a threat that has to be dealt with.
The Navy has issues eith a lot of that due to manning above all else
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
The Navy has issues eith a lot of that due to manning above all else
Yeah, and if the Navy is undermanned, overworked, underpaid, and overstretched, it means the US's most potent tool to actually meeting the commitments/goals DC wants is a shell of what it should be.

That's not even taking into account officer cult nature of the Navy leading to rather poor enlisted retention.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
I'll give a more detailed response tomorrow but I'm of the mind that the US fundamentally cannot survive in its current incarnation without the demythification of its institutions and the disbanding of our intelligence community and federal law enforcement apparatusm

The expansion of the electoral college down to the state level...is also a must.

The existence of multinational financial institutions. Needs to go bye bye if we are being honest.

Their operation need to be criminalized - stake holder banks that can not by law exceed say a region and thousands of different. Competing payment processes. People like Larry Fink should be designated financial terrorists and pursued legally the same way people like Escobar were.

Japan wants to pass mandatory reproduction laws and we don't need to that but we should be incentivizing pregnancies and marriages and from 18 or so on up.

Maybe begin an aggressive pop culture campaign demonizing city life and higher education in the social sciences.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
I'll give a more detailed response tomorrow but I'm of the mind that the US fundamentally cannot survive in its current incarnation without the demythification of its institutions and the disbanding of our intelligence community and federal law enforcement apparatusm

The expansion of the electoral college down to the state level...is also a must.

The existence of multinational financial institutions. Needs to go bye bye if we are being honest.

Their operation need to be criminalized - stake holder banks that can not by law exceed say a region and thousands of different. Competing payment processes. People like Larry Fink should be designated financial terrorists and pursued legally the same way people like Escobar were.

Japan wants to pass mandatory reproduction laws and we don't need to that but we should be incentivizing pregnancies and marriages and from 18 or so on up.

Maybe begin an aggressive pop culture campaign demonizing city life and higher education in the social sciences.
This is the biggest heaping of BS I've ever seen, and I've seen some pretty hefty BS in my time... even spouted by me in some cases. The sad reality is that economies of scale are backed by reality to the hilt, and you need those scales to face the new threats. Bigger, is sadly, better when it comes to governments.

In addition, you can't demonize city life, everyone across history tried their damnedest and they all failed. So there is no real use trying.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
This is the biggest heaping of BS I've ever seen, and I've seen some pretty hefty BS in my time... even spouted by me in some cases.

The solution to our problems is always going to be the annihilation of global banking cartels and the empowerment of the citizen at the expense of the public servant.

In addition, you can't demonize city life, everyone across history tried their damnedest and they all failed. So there is no real use trying.

istock_000022978955_small_0.jpg
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
The solution to our problems is always going to be the annihilation of global banking cartels and the empowerment of the citizen at the expense of the public servant.
No, it isn't. That's beyond stupid, because if you try that then you'll have world trade grind to a halt, and that would restart the cycle of war again, but now with nukes. You assume nukes stopped wars. Here's the thing, they didn't. It's (practically in the economic and political sense) free trade that made wars of WW1 and 2 and Korea a thing of the past. If that metaphorical price tag -for any reason- rises beyond 'dirt cheap', we'll be back doing World Wars within a decade.

At best.
If this guy is who I think he is, then even he failed too. People have tried to demonize cities since the first city-states. You can't push back against what is essentially a law of the universe (economies of scale) and human health and wellbeing recognition (i.e. more numbers is better). The only reason that the urban/rural divide didn't become prominent until just under two centuries ago is that cities had a higher death rate than their birth rate, only held up by the influx of rural immigrants.
 

Simonbob

Well-known member
Unlike Australia, English proficiency is not a requirement. Australia has denied the citizenship applications of native English speakers who didn't speak "proper Australian English" ... which kinda/sorta makes you sound like you've had one too many at the pub when out with your friends to my ears.

Sure..... 70 years ago.

Back when we had the White Australia Poilcy, and it was exactly what it sounds like.


Now? You don't need to speak English beyond a 5 year old level. The change was gradual, but the degeneration is insane.



As for more kids, money isn't the answer. It's been tried, in a bunch of places. It's a cultural thing, manefesting in one factor more than any other I've seen. That's women having no more than the most basic education.

Anything more than girls quiting school at 12 is going to have minimal effect.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
A lot of people do not like Dalio, but you should take a look at this.


TBH the USA is probably in the worst possible Fourth Turning in its history at the moment.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
This is the biggest heaping of BS I've ever seen, and I've seen some pretty hefty BS in my time... even spouted by me in some cases. The sad reality is that economies of scale are backed by reality to the hilt, and you need those scales to face the new threats. Bigger, is sadly, better when it comes to governments.

In addition, you can't demonize city life, everyone across history tried their damnedest and they all failed. So there is no real use trying.
City life is pretty trash. too expensive. no space. too much crime. too many people who you just pass by and have every excuse to just be an asshole cause they will likely never meet you again. no real advantage now that internet is a thing and deliveries go everywhere. decentralization is the way to go.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
No, it isn't. That's beyond stupid, because if you try that then you'll have world trade grind to a halt, and that would restart the cycle of war again, but now with nukes. You assume nukes stopped wars. Here's the thing, they didn't. It's (practically in the economic and political sense) free trade that made wars of WW1 and 2 and Korea a thing of the past. If that metaphorical price tag -for any reason- rises beyond 'dirt cheap', we'll be back doing World Wars within a decade.

At best.

And whose saying we disrupt free trade? What I'm saying is we replace an existing system that's hell bent on enslaving and exterminating large subsets of humanity with so many of them that they can't organize enough to do that.

You aren't really reading. Just simping for Klaus Shwabb.
If this guy is who I think he is, then even he failed too. People have tried to demonize cities since the first city-states. You can't push back against what is essentially a law of the universe (economies of scale) and human health and wellbeing recognition (i.e. more numbers is better). The only reason that the urban/rural divide didn't become prominent until just under two centuries ago is that cities had a higher death rate than their birth rate, only held up by the influx of rural immigrants.

You're arguing that it's human nature to become sexually depraved, unhealthy and Insect like and you call me silly?

No.

City life is pretty trash. too expensive. no space. too much crime. too many people who you just pass by and have every excuse to just be an asshole cause they will likely never meet you again. no real advantage now that internet is a thing and deliveries go everywhere. decentralization is the way to go.

That's the best thing about technological advancement, the more the innovation game is played the less and less need we have for massive central authorities.

And honestly I can see inside of a generation the only sectors remaining global being food, energy and minerals/mining.
 
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