Versus Match DCAU Justice League vs Akatsuki

[Bear Ribs]

So you guys decided to continue Spergbattles trend of having no fucking idea how to conduct verses debates except instead of mindlessly masturbating anime y'all are pulling a 2000's era KMC and doing it for comics?

I'm cool with that, just don't expect the larger vs boards to take you seriously and considering their word of mouth and judgment on these smaller boards is how you guys get traffic...well.

Either way.

You're completely misrepresenting the size of Peins destruction and extrapolating feats using abc logic and ignoring the consistent high end showings of the series in question.

That isn't debating, though and if you want me to just spend every response going forward dunking on you, I'm more than happy too but you should probably stop having a seizure and start debating properlyView attachment 545

Downplayed? I did, because you picked an idiot picture of Pein's destruction instead of going for one that actually showed some real power. If you'd led with this:

Or if you want to stick to the manga, this:

You could have done much better, and I wouldn't have been able to downplay it. As is you picked the weak ass tail end of his power instead for no apparent reason. Don't put down pathetic feats when dramatically better ones are easily available, especially don't claim to "know the material better" when you don't even know which pic to use to make your point.

Frankly the fact that I have to show you how to pick your evidence is downright embarrassing. It's not my job to do the research for my opponent, you put up a crummy feat, expect to get stomped, not that you can match the JLU's planet busting anyway.

As for ABC logic, no so much, you're misusing your terms. John Stewart and everybody else in the universe thought it perfectly reasonable that he blew up a planet completely by accident. That's not ABC, that's simply the feats the characters are described as having, the fact that in this case the planet survived doesn't matter as it would have been completely obvious that something was up if Green Lanterns can't blow up planets and in fact aren't even city busters as you've claimed. There's no real arguing with that, you just went with "it doesn't count." That's weak.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Snip for face saving .

I like the fact that you picked images that make it look smaller than the one I chose and you decided to bluster for a paragraph or two to compensate.

But thats all it is, bluster because no character jn the DCAU is a planet buster except Amazo and Brainiac after Darkseid "upgraded" him.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I like the fact that you picked images that make it look smaller than the one I chose and you decided to bluster for a paragraph or two to compensate.

You... seriously believe those massive craters are smaller than the small dust cloud you posted? How? Are you posting on a braille translator?

 

[Quickdraw101]

Conjecture not supported by any feat ever shown by a GL in the entire show isn't legitimate evidence. Especially when John and six of the strongest GL's in existence making a suicidal charge at Amazo would have only cracked earth in half. IE John outright contradicts his own reluctance there...later in the show. A far more powerful John Stewart no less, believes himself incapable of doing with back up and using all of his power.

You're using PIS to invent feats and abilities for characters that is not at all supported by onscreen evidence.

Counterpoint, Kyle said they'd use every bit of power they had left to try and take down Amazo. It sounded to me that due to Oa getting displaced, and already expending their charge on first the barrier to stop Amazo, then travel to Earth, that none of the GL's had much energy left at all, especially since the main power battery was gone.

 

[aguy1013]

This feel heavily bias towards the dc side since the op made numerous amounts of bonuses to dc while giving nothing to naruto,but for me the prep time is the real killer here,but without with would be more of a even playing field sort of,
The only thing naruto side can do is creat city level explosions and stuff and their heavy hitters(people with magic eyes) are few and far between.
Dc wins regardless cause power and knowledge is given to dc and the amount of hax naruto have is too low to compete with the hax of dc

 

[Bear Ribs]

This feel heavily bias towards the dc side since the op made numerous amounts of bonuses to dc while giving nothing to naruto,but for me the prep time is the real killer here,but without with would be more of a even playing field sort of,
The only thing naruto side can do is creat city level explosions and stuff and their heavy hitters(people with magic eyes) are few and far between.
Dc wins regardless cause power and knowledge is given to dc and the amount of hax naruto have is too low to compete with the hax of dc

Generally my feeling as well. Batman with preptime is usually regarded as excessively powerful in vs. debates. Batman with preptime and the entire League worth of options available to plan with is just excessive, Akatsuki can win but I don't see them taking it by force but rather by their sneakier members slipping away while the heavy hitters and less subtle types get their faces punched in by the Green Lantern and Superman.

 

[aguy1013]

Generally my feeling as well. Batman with preptime is usually regarded as excessively powerful in vs. debates. Batman with preptime and the entire League worth of options available to plan with is just excessive, Akatsuki can win but I don't see them taking it by force but rather by their sneakier members slipping away while the heavy hitters and less subtle types get their faces punched in by the Green Lantern and Superman.

True, doesn't zetsu have an army of zetsu that can copy people

 

[Free-Stater 101]

True, doesn't zetsu have an army of zetsu that can copy people

No, those where strengthened with Hashirama cells by Kabuto, and neither he or orochimaru are present.

Generally my feeling as well. Batman with preptime is usually regarded as excessively powerful in vs. debates. Batman with preptime and the entire League worth of options available to plan with is just excessive, Akatsuki can win but I don't see them taking it by force but rather by their sneakier members slipping away while the heavy hitters and less subtle types get their faces punched in by the Green Lantern and Superman.

To say nothing of the fact that Batman not only had prep time but information on all of his enemies, abilities, strength's, and weakness.

 

[DeltaNine]

So I think some pretty important context is missing from JL feat. He was not accused lol noping a planet. The idea was he hit a volcanic fault line that caused some sort of crazy chain reaction that destroyed the planet. It was never once said him just shooting the planet would destroy it. Unless we wanna run with the idea you need planet busting fire power to take out just random smuggler ships which even in context of what went on in the episode is pretty silly idea, as his go to for the first ship was to just cripple it.

 

[What's the sitch?]

Akatsuki would win because they are willing to kill outright(and have the firepower for it) from the very start while the justice league would try their normal warm up tactics to their own detriment.

They have enough shenanigans between them, even if for whatever reason they can't win upfront they they can disguise themselves amongst the populace, learn new tech and or just assassinate them one by one.

 

[Bear Ribs]

So I think some pretty important context is missing from JL feat. He was not accused lol noping a planet. The idea was he hit a volcanic fault line that caused some sort of crazy chain reaction that destroyed the planet. It was never once said him just shooting the planet would destroy it.

That wouldn't explain the entire planet shattering into an asteroid field though, he had to add enough energy for every atom of the planet to escape it's own gravity.

That said, if this was the only line of reasoning in that direction it could be wrong. But we have Green Lanterns stating that if they fought Amazo, half the earth would be shattered away just as collateral damage from the battle. We also have the fact that they believed Amazo had already destroyed Oa and still believed they could stand against him. It's stated outright that Brainiac has destroyed hundreds of planets though we don't have an onscreen feat for how he did it due to Superman stopping him from destroying earth.

Any one of those alone could be an outlier or just a mistake but that many events over several years forms a fairly suggestive pattern that, in fact, planetary destruction is a thing in that universe.


Even if we cut that expected amount of power down to a tenth, it's going to beat out the best feats Akatsuki have.

Unless we wanna run with the idea you need planet busting fire power to take out just random smuggler ships which even in context of what went on in the episode is pretty silly idea, as his go to for the first ship was to just cripple it.

I'm not sure we have any feats for how tough JL smuggler ships are, actually.

 

[DeltaNine]

That wouldn't explain the entire planet shattering into an asteroid field though, he had to add enough energy for every atom of the planet to escape it's own gravity.

Oh come on now. We are talking about a setting were the guy uses his will to control what amounts to green space magic to do everything from fly, make hardlight constructs and shoot energy blasts. But yet its impossible for a planet to have a physics breaking chain reaction that turns it into a asteroid field with out him doing the 99% of the work? I can just as easily say he did less then 0.001% of the work, But I won't because we have no way of knowing how much of it was his doing with green space magic, and how much was the planets giving the laws of physics the middle finger.

That said, if this was the only line of reasoning in that direction it could be wrong. But we have Green Lanterns stating that if they fought Amazo, half the earth would be shattered away just as collateral damage from the battle.

And that's fair, I just thought it was worth bringing up the context of GLs planet busting because it was being handled more like a death star busting then what it actually was from what we are told supposedly went down.

We also have the fact that they believed Amazo had already destroyed Oa and still believed they could stand against him. It's stated outright that Brainiac has destroyed hundreds of planets though we don't have an onscreen feat for how he did it due to Superman stopping him from destroying earth.

Well as you said we have no idea how brainiac did that, its possible he used the same nonesense chain reaction GL was accused of causing to blow up planets. Or maybe he did through raw fire power. We just don't know so I don't think its worth arguing about.

Any one of those alone could be an outlier or just a mistake but that many events over several years forms a fairly suggestive pattern that, in fact, planetary destruction is a thing in that universe.

Why it does come up a number of times if I go looking I am fairly confident I can find just as many occasions that they were struggling with stuff at a far smaller scale stuff.

Even if we cut that expected amount of power down to a tenth, it's going to beat out the best feats Akatsuki have.

To be honest I don't think the JL need planet busting showings or even a tenth of that to throw down with the Akatsuki and come out on top. I mean flashes around the world he pulled against braniac would let him take out a thew of them by him self and that's a far cry from planet busting.

I'm not sure we have any feats for how tough JL smuggler ships are, actually.

GL with ease tore through one to tear out a engine bay. But unknown material, with no other showings, plus energy shields with no other showings.. No good way to tell. I mean guess I could go through every last episode GL does stuff in and find a average for what his energy beams can and can't do but honestly, I don't like the show nearly enough for that.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Oh come on now. We are talking about a setting were the guy uses his will to control what amounts to green space magic to do everything from fly, make hardlight constructs and shoot energy blasts. But yet its impossible for a planet to have a physics breaking chain reaction that turns it into a asteroid field with out him doing the 99% of the work? I can just as easily say he did less then 0.001% of the work, But I won't because we have no way of knowing how much of it was his doing with green space magic, and how much was the planets giving the laws of physics the middle finger.

Okay, on the one hand I can see you have a good point here. On the other hand using that kind of reasoning basically makes vs. debates impossible in the first place. We use physics as a baseline to make sense of existing feats, once you let go of that you have no basis for comparison anymore.

And that's fair, I just thought it was worth bringing up the context of GLs planet busting because it was being handled more like a death star busting then what it actually was from what we are told supposedly went down.

Well as you said we have no idea how brainiac did that, its possible he used the same nonesense chain reaction GL was accused of causing to blow up planets. Or maybe he did through raw fire power. We just don't know so I don't think its worth arguing about.

Why it does come up a number of times if I go looking I am fairly confident I can find just as many occasions that they were struggling with stuff at a far smaller scale stuff.

To be honest I don't think the JL need planet busting showings or even a tenth of that to throw down with the Akatsuki and come out on top. I mean flashes around the world he pulled against braniac would let him take out a thew of them by him self and that's a far cry from planet busting.

Yes I agree, but if you look at the thread, @The Immortal Watch Dog was arguing that the Watchtower's Binary Fusion Generator wouldn't even be able to hurt any Akatsuki member besides Kakuzu and Hidan, that Itachi could outrun the Flash, and that Pein was able to pick up an island the size of Manhattan and soak multi-gigaton attacks. Given the quality of his argument it was much easier to just argue "planet buster" since he was pretty much making his facts up as he went and that was a feat even he couldn't BS.

GL with ease tore through one to tear out a engine bay. But unknown material, with no other showings, plus energy shields with no other showings.. No good way to tell. I mean guess I could go through every last episode GL does stuff in and find a average for what his energy beams can and can't do but honestly, I don't like the show nearly enough for that.

Averages aren't how it works. If I normally drive 35 MPH around town to pick up groceries but take my car to the racetrack and do 150MPH once a month, you don't average out those speeds when determining car performance in a desperate car chase.

 

[DeltaNine]

Sorry about the delay my week has been a fair bit busier then expected.

Okay, on the one hand I can see you have a good point here. On the other hand using that kind of reasoning basically makes vs. debates impossible in the first place. We use physics as a baseline to make sense of existing feats, once you let go of that you have no basis for comparison anymore.

Well if they had just blasted to planet to hell with no such comment about a reaction I wouldn't be arguing this with you. But they call it a reaction.

Yes I agree, but if you look at the thread, @The Immortal Watch Dog was arguing that the Watchtower's Binary Fusion Generator wouldn't even be able to hurt any Akatsuki member besides Kakuzu and Hidan, that Itachi could outrun the Flash, and that Pein was able to pick up an island the size of Manhattan and soak multi-gigaton attacks. Given the quality of his argument it was much easier to just argue "planet buster" since he was pretty much making his facts up as he went and that was a feat even he couldn't BS.

The from the same setting were Ninja are dodging ninja stars and those daggers because they are a active threat, and those rarely punch through trees? It sounds like I should be tearing holes in that argument but seeing as he basically rage quite the thread I don't see much point.

Averages aren't how it works. If I normally drive 35 MPH around town to pick up groceries but take my car to the racetrack and do 150MPH once a month, you don't average out those speeds when determining car performance in a desperate car chase.

Fair enough, I didn't think that through very well.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Sorry about the delay my week has been a fair bit busier then expected.

Well if they had just blasted to planet to hell with no such comment about a reaction I wouldn't be arguing this with you. But they call it a reaction.

And what's the rule? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Not a reaction billions of times higher than what was put in. Granted this is most often applied to kinetic energy but it's true for all other energy types as well.

But let's say I concede the point and we take that off the table. We still have green lanterns vs. Amazo where just collateral damage when they weren't trying to damage the surrounding area would "Shatter half the planet."

The from the same setting were Ninja are dodging ninja stars and those daggers because they are a active threat, and those rarely punch through trees? It sounds like I should be tearing holes in that argument but seeing as he basically rage quite the thread I don't see much point.

If the ninja you're talking about isn't Superman and the shuriken aren't being thrown by a Green Lantern at max power I'm not sure I see the point. A threat to Lois Lane or a random mook ninja is not necessarily a threat to Superman or Darkseid.

 

[DeltaNine]

And what's the rule? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Not a reaction billions of times higher than what was put in. Granted this is most often applied to kinetic energy but it's true for all other energy types as well.

Are we assuming the explosives that we use to set off a nuke equal to the blast that results from the nuke? Not that this argument matters much as you will see below.

But let's say I concede the point and we take that off the table. We still have green lanterns vs. Amazo where just collateral damage when they weren't trying to damage the surrounding area would "Shatter half the planet."

Well I pulled up the episode as I could of sworn there was some other context and I got.. Well basically the classic writers having no idea what they have done in regards to how that would imply everything else would have to scale up in order to be relevant when shooting at Amazo when he gets to earth. I had originally had a very long post for this but honestly it would just turned this entire debate into endless nit picking, and well honestly that isn't very fun for me and I can't imagine its would be fun for you so I concede in full.

If the ninja you're talking about isn't Superman and the shuriken aren't being thrown by a Green Lantern at max power I'm not sure I see the point. A threat to Lois Lane or a random mook ninja is not necessarily a threat to Superman or Darkseid.

I was talking in reference to the Akatsuki. The idea the JL can't put them down out side of planet busting showings is just laughable. Naruto is anything but consistent, espically when it comes speeds. With characters flip flooping between hypersonic to sub sonic and almost a chapter to chapter bases.