Cowboy Bebop

Argent

Well-known member
I am planning on pretending this doesn't exist. I am leery of live-action adaptations of animated works in general and of anime in particular. Frankly I tend to find it insulting that they even try to make such adaptations, as I feel this only reinforces the idea that animated works cannot be taken seriously. To go along with this, Hollywood just never seems to get the source material and they can't seem to help but make a mess of something that they are trying to adapt, especially in current year, as we now have woke bullshit to put up with along with the things they normally just can't seem to get right. The business with Faye and Jet are examples, and with the response to it, which is typical of what has been seen before, just underlines this - they don't care what the audience that made this show popular to begin with thinks, they are only trying to make a quick buck off of it because they know it was popular. Anyone interested in this show would be better off watching the anime and the "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" movie.

I understand being wary about Netflix being Woke but I think that it being an adaptation from Japan will help. Overall I think the stuff shown at least means it is worth a try.


As for anime being adapted to live action. I don't think it reinforces the idea that cartoons are just for kids. I believe that if anything a good adaptation can help introduce people to more serious cartoons. The problem is getting a good one which anime has been lacking.

But overall the American view about animation is changing. Just look at Prime Video and Invincible. That type of show would never of been made even ten years ago when show like Family Guy where the only adult animation shows around.

Just like comics it is going to be an uphill battle but one that is slowly being won.


Outlaw Star would be a better fit than Cowboy Bebop for a live action remake. They were released the same year, are from the same genre, and the kid character isn't mostly an extra (Ed) or an unlikeable writer's pet (Wesley). James Hawking was an integral character right from the start.

There are some problems with Outlaw Star. First is that it has more Japanese style humor then Bebop. Humor is one of those things that does not always translate well across cultural lines.

Next is that while serious Outlaw Star is more juvenile. While Bebop has humor and some out there bounty hun5s in general it is a much more serious show.

The last is theme. Outlaw Star is a science fiction show and has things like ship fights with giant arms. While Bebop is a science fiction western. So it has much more overlap with non science fiction fans and has a bigger potential audience.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
I understand being wary about Netflix being Woke but I think that it being an adaptation from Japan will help. Overall I think the stuff shown at least means it is worth a try.


As for anime being adapted to live action. I don't think it reinforces the idea that cartoons are just for kids. I believe that if anything a good adaptation can help introduce people to more serious cartoons. The problem is getting a good one which anime has been lacking.

But overall the American view about animation is changing. Just look at Prime Video and Invincible. That type of show would never of been made even ten years ago when show like Family Guy where the only adult animation shows around.

Just like comics it is going to be an uphill battle but one that is slowly being won.




There are some problems with Outlaw Star. First is that it has more Japanese style humor then Bebop. Humor is one of those things that does not always translate well across cultural lines.

Next is that while serious Outlaw Star is more juvenile. While Bebop has humor and some out there bounty hun5s in general it is a much more serious show.

The last is theme. Outlaw Star is a science fiction show and has things like ship fights with giant arms. While Bebop is a science fiction western. So it has much more overlap with non science fiction fans and has a bigger potential audience.
Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star are both space westerns. The former is a bit more serious about it and the latter has a much more coherent plot.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
I understand being wary about Netflix being Woke but I think that it being an adaptation from Japan will help. Overall I think the stuff shown at least means it is worth a try.
The stuff I've seen so far as changes made to characters for no reason, complaining about fans who don't like these changes, and nothing which indicates that this will be any different from the pathetic attempt that was made with Death Note.

As for anime being adapted to live action. I don't think it reinforces the idea that cartoons are just for kids. I believe that if anything a good adaptation can help introduce people to more serious cartoons. The problem is getting a good one which anime has been lacking.
In what way does having a live-action version of something encourage anyone to watch the original? This is the same argument that got made with nuTrek and it didn't make any sense back then, either.

But overall the American view about animation is changing. Just look at Prime Video and Invincible. That type of show would never of been made even ten years ago when show like Family Guy where the only adult animation shows around.
Which goes back to the question of why to do these live-action versions of animated works? What's the point of making the same show again, but live-action? Some shows, I suppose, it might be argued could be "improved" upon in some way, like say the Disney Atlantis, but how are you going to "improve" upon Cowboy Bebop?

Just like comics it is going to be an uphill battle but one that is slowly being won.
It's a battle I don't think should even be fought, to be honest. The more "mainstream" something gets, the worse the quality tends to get in order to go after that "mass appeal." Not to mention the "woke" crowd finding it and latching on to it so they can ruin it.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
The stuff I've seen so far as changes made to characters for no reason, complaining about fans who don't like these changes, and nothing which indicates that this will be any different from the pathetic attempt that was made with Death Note.
Death Note was complete bullshit. If I had Light's notebook no one would even suspect I even had it or how I was using it.

He was an idiot.
 

Argent

Well-known member
In what way does having a live-action version of something encourage anyone to watch the original? This is the same argument that got made with nuTrek and it didn't make any sense back then, either.

The same way that sales spike for books made into movies. There is a large group of people that like to read or see the original work first. Or if they become fans may want to check out other things under the same name. Granted the current source material needs to be good otherwise you get a Marvel situation. But adaptations can bring in new fans or can lead to new stuff made in hopes of getting that movie or t.v. show deal.




Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star are both space westerns. The former is a bit more serious about it and the latter has a much more coherent plot.

They are different styles of story telling. Outlaw Star is a young man going on a great quest and you can basically follow the steps of a Hero's journey throughout the show.

Cowboy Bebop is much more episodic. I see Bebop more as a narrative frame type. The whole point is to explore the characters instead of tell an epic adventure.

Both types of stories are well worth watching and popular. So I don't think the different styles really make one more adaptable.

I also never really thought of Outlaw Star as a Western. It always gave off more of a Treasure Planet and Age of Sail vibe to me. The main point of was making is that Bebop is much more up front in its western theme and is lighter on the Sci Fi window dressing. Where Outlaw Star is much heavier on the Sci Fi window dressing and may turn some people off. Which is something that companies think of whne choosing new shows to make.

Which goes back to the question of why to do these live-action versions of animated works? What's the point of making the same show again, but live-action? Some shows, I suppose, it might be argued could be "improved" upon in some way, like say the Disney Atlantis, but how are you going to "improve" upon Cowboy Bebop?

Mainly it is telling the story in a different way or expolerin something that was on the sidelines in the original work. An adaption doesn't always have to "imporve" the story. It just has to explore or tell it in a different way. Sherlock Homes is a good example. Multiple books, t.v shows, movies, comics and cartoons that show a different twist on the same characters. While not all are great there are enough good ones to outweigh the bad.

As to anything having mass appeal being bad or to woke. You can find stuff that has mass appeal that is good and something being small doesn't stop the woke crowd from hounding you just look to 40K. What does stop the woke crowd better then anything else is cold hard cash that companies stand to lose. It is the main reason that the Marvel movies wokeness level is so low. They have a set pattern for the movies and know that changing it costs money. Granted some level of woke is going to be there but that is just becasue of Hollywood. I am not sure of any major market that doesn't have some level of social justice points inserted now. The only way to change it would be to change the entire poltical landscape.

Death Note was complete bullshit. If I had Light's notebook no one would even suspect I even had it or how I was using it.

He was an idiot.

Agreed. I remember when it came out and every loved it. But I just sat there thinking how dumb Light was and that he was less super genius and more emo on a power trip.
 
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bintananth

behind a desk
Agreed. I remember when it came out and every loved it. But I just sat there thinking how dumb Light was and that he was less super genius and more emo on a power trip.
The emo power trip was, I think, part of the appeal.

Back to Bebop. I really enjoyed the music because of how well it fit. I'm very glad they got Yoko Kanno to do the live-action score because I'm not sure it would work without the same type of music.
 

Argent

Well-known member

Personally this is meh to me at most. 99 percent of critics are to busy smelling their own frats and looking for Oscar bait to like anything normal.

I will still give a try because I remember how critics told Ghostbusters 2016 was worth watching too.
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Personally this is meh to me at most. 99 percent of critics are to busy smelling their own frats and looking for Oscar bait to like anything normal.
I would emphasize this (even if I'm also skeptical of the Bebop live-action being anything good)...Hell, if anything, considering the track-record professional critics have in responding to fun stuff (Chappele's specials come to mind prominently, or Battle Angel Alita in similar live-action anime-adaptation vein), critics not liking it actually makes me a little more curious if it isn't something worthwhile.

I'll still personally hold-off until I hear a wider sampling (of audience) and my own handful of people I know I have similar tastes to, but...yeah, critics saying it's not good doesn't exactly make me believe it isn't good.
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv

:rolleyes:
They felt very affirmed and seen – albeit, Gren's situation in the anime, contextually, is obviously rooted in an unfortunate event; it's rooted in trauma. But Gren has found comfort and stability and normalcy in their situation when we meet them, within the show.
The show is not subtle with Gren's behavior and dialogue about hitting you with the fact that the only reason he hasn't eaten a bullet is because he's on a quest for vengeance against or death-at-the-hands-of Vicious. That's...Like...The entire basic premise of his storyline and all his interactions with Faye emphasize that. His death emphasizes that--dude goes out floating towards a world from his past when he was actually happy.

Actor is wrong on this.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Of course. But it's shit like that and the shit over Faye's outfit that really gives me concern. It's kind of like the stuff with Tolkien's work where you have these people just ignoring what is actually there and obvious in order to do their own self-insert version of it.
 

bintananth

behind a desk

:rolleyes:
Consider the character they were hired to portray ...

Gren can't be successfully portrayed by someone who isn't so androgynous that you must ask "Am I looking at a guy or a gal?"

That's not easy to do. The main reason my brothers and I can pass for any and all our sisters in an emergency is because we're all about the same size and they're as onery and unruly as a guy who isn't happy with you ... on a good day when they aren't upset with you.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Or just not making a live-action version of Cowboy Bebop instead of whining about how you can't so something from it as an excuse for changing something.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker


So yeah; it sucks. It sucks hard. Jet is a black absent father, Edward is a "genderfluid" boy, and Gren doesn't even remotely pass for a woman anymore. Moreover, the whole thing is apparently equal parts boring and awkward, and I'm left confused as to how Netflix keeps making crap like this. You'd think eventually, they'd run out of money.
 

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