Complaining about the NSA/ATF's conduct, past, and present.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Average NSA armt that big. They are often on rhe spectrum more then fat

Fine from now on, when I bully NSA agents I'll tell rainman jokes for the sake of accuracy

Sorry, but I'm going to have to go off of what information I have on that, and I already had a real distrust of the NSA and the other spook organizations even before Snowden blew the whistle. I'm actually really appalled that nothing of note has happened as a result of that.

They very likely have bugged millions of Americans and continue to watch them. Patriot act yay! But it was probably and continues to likely be due to the drug trade and organized crime more than terrorism...though I wouldn't be surprised if every White person in the US is under NSA surveillance after Biden and his Coolie mistress stole the whitehouse.

edit- Basically what I'm saying is the United States Government stopped working and we are now in a third world country..Having escaped from one, I know what one looks like.

And we are totally that...

Don't forget, ATF also love litting some kids up. It's their only functioning viagra.

Those kids at WACO and Ruby Ridge deserved it damnit! They were Fat shaming our bold, beautiful agents!

Fuck'n A if I were a gun runner I'd pay some dude to follow these fuckers around with a tuba. No wait, they'd probably stress eat the guy with the Tuba

 

[Zachowon]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to go off of what information I have on that, and I already had a real distrust of the NSA and the other spook organizations even before Snowden blew the whistle. I'm actually really appalled that nothing of note has happened as a result of that.

Because all of the changes that went on at the NSA were done behind the public eye. They did A LOT, for the worse of the nation in some ways, better in others.
Again, I can not explain

Fine from now on, when I bully NSA agents I'll tell rainman jokes for the sake of accuracy View attachment 566



They very likely have bugged millions of Americans and continue to watch them. Patriot act yay! But it was probably and continues to likely be due to the drug trade and organized crime more than terrorism...though I wouldn't be surprised if every White person in the US is under NSA surveillance after Biden and his Coolie mistress stole the whitehouse.

edit- Basically what I'm saying is the United States Government stopped working and we are now in a third world country..Having escaped from one, I know what one looks like.

And we are totally that...View attachment 567



Those kids at WACO and Ruby Ridge deserved it damnit! They were Fat shaming our bold, beautiful agents!

Fuck'n A if I were a gun runner I'd pay some dude to follow these fuckers around with a tuba. No wait, they'd probably stress eat the guy with the Tuba View attachment 568

Obese doesnt mean fat. One of my NCOs by BMI is fat, and is in better shape then a lot of people on here.

As for the NSA. You are wrong, and I can assure you, you are more wrong then you everhave.
Because, with the NSA being DoD,the ways for it to be able to operate on US people is such a process, they usually only do it on a case by case basis.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Obese doesnt mean fat. One of my NCOs by BMI is fat, and is in better shape then a lot of people on here.

Oh I know that, I used to work out with a bunch of power lifters. You can be built like a grizzly and be as fast and healthy as one too.

But ATF guys are not that. They're just fat asses

for the NSA. You are wrong, and I can assure you, you are more wrong then you everhave.
Because, with the NSA being DoD,the ways for it to be able to operate on US people is such a process, they usually only do it on a case by case basis.

I'm sure your CO'S assure you of this but Federal agencies break the law and commit seditious acts to do their job all the time.

I wouldn't even have an issue with it if they did it for the right reasons because I grew up in politics and remember the cold war and I'm a realist. But they don't do that, them participating in the overthrow of Trump proves it.

 

[Zachowon]

Oh I know that, I used to work out with a bunch of power lifters. You can be built like a grizzly and be as fast and healthy as one too.

But ATF guys are not that. They're just fat asses



I'm sure your CO'S assure you of this but Federal agencies break the law and commit seditious acts to do their job all the time.

I wouldn't even have an issue with it if they did it for the right reasons because I grew up in politics and remember the cold war and I'm a realist. But they don't do that, them participating in the overthrow of Trump proves it.

NSA never did. Because there is a LOT that we do a lot at all times.
And I am talking about more then COs. Hell, my CW4 has told me shit that he did, and how much paperwork he had to go through to be able to do it.

I am a realist when it comes to capabilities of what our government can do.
Legality is the least fo what I am getting at. More at systems in place that are automatic

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

NSA never did. Because there is a LOT that we do a lot at all times.
And I am talking about more then COs. Hell, my CW4 has told me shit that he did, and how much paperwork he had to go through to be able to do it.

And my point is, if you think they don't bend or ignore the rules when expedience demands it, you're naïve. And like I said, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. At its height in the 1940's and 50's the Commission/five families for example had an intelligence network that was actually superior to what the war department had and when OSI became the CIA...the foremost intelligence bosses on earth weren't in Langley or in Moscow it was in New York City and whatever Bathhouse J Edgar was hanging out in because it was Hoover and Lucky Luciano who were the big spook kings.

Obviously the CIA eclipsed their asses by the end of that decade, but I don't exactly begrudge Federal Law enforcement and domestic security peeps bending the rules to take people who employ guys who shove babies in incinerators out.

My issue comes when they decide they don't like the political views of the people they serve and so turn on the average American forgetting that they belong to us...they're our dogs, our servants and they advance our interests and we don't exist to serve theirs.

That's my problem..To be an intelligence operative is to be a dog and when a kennel produces nothing but bad dogs you either shut the kennel down or change the trainers out for better ones.

I am a realist when it comes to capabilities of what our government can do.
Legality is the least fo what I am getting at. More at systems in place that are automatic

And maybe it's just because I grew up around people involved in Plan Condor and am old enough to remember both the chaos that came out of the end of the cold war when organize crime syndicates became more powerful than countries and terrorists and militia did whatever the fuck they pleased and the FBI and the ATF murdered children for the lulz. Maybe its because I remember what the response to the September eleventh attacks were but I'm saying your bosses don't give a fuck about the law when its suits them.

And again..I'm not even against that necessarily, more against the mentality behind it and the reasoning.

Also they like shooting dogs.

That's a relic from the 70's and 80's when the Cocaine wars were raging all over Miami, LA and New York. It wasn't uncommon to have a bunch of tactical teams converge on a compound full of narcos and before they even get to the narcos they'd be lose half the unit to big ass dogs.

It left a sort of generational PTSD in Feds and the PD's in those cities.

That's no excuse whatsoever mind ye...But it's also something I can at least understand knowing where it comes from. I saw the aftermath of a raid gone south due to dogs once when I was in an ER in Buenos Aires and one dude was holding what I think was part of his buddy's face and sobbing and everyone else was just screaming or bloodied and a mess. Shit's again no excuse, but its not coming from the same sadistic place..at least not generally I would think.

Prolly should y'know use some of the six figure salaries some of those assholes get to pay for some kind of training that convinces them legions of Filas Brasileros won't be converging on them every time they go to some white collar offending grandpas house...though.

 

[Zachowon]

And my point is, if you think they don't bend or ignore the rules when expedience demands it, you're naïve. And like I said, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. At its height in the 1940's and 50's the Commission/five families for example had an intelligence network that was actually superior to what the war department had and when OSI became the CIA...the foremost intelligence bosses on earth weren't in Langley or in Moscow it was in New York City and whatever Bathhouse J Edgar was hanging out in because it was Hoover and Lucky Luciano who were the big spook kings.

Obviously the CIA eclipsed their asses by the end of that decade, but I don't exactly begrudge Federal Law enforcement and domestic security peeps bending the rules to take people who employ guys who shove babies in incinerators out.

My issue comes when they decide they don't like the political views of the people they serve and so turn on the average American forgetting that they belong to us...they're our dogs, our servants and they advance our interests and we don't exist to serve theirs.

That's my problem..To be an intelligence operative is to be a dog and when a kennel produces nothing but bad dogs you either shut the kennel down or change the trainers out for better ones.




And maybe it's just because I grew up around people involved in Plan Condor and am old enough to remember both the chaos that came out of the end of the cold war when organize crime syndicates became more powerful than countries and terrorists and militia did whatever the fuck they pleased and the FBI and the ATF murdered children for the lulz. Maybe its because I remember what the response to the September eleventh attacks were but I'm saying your bosses don't give a fuck about the law when its suits them.

And again..I'm not even against that necessarily, more against the mentality behind it and the reasoning.




That's a relic from the 70's and 80's when the Cocaine wars were raging all over Miami, LA and New York. It wasn't uncommon to have a bunch of tactical teams converge on a compound full of narcos and before they even get to the narcos they'd be lose half the unit to big ass dogs.

It left a sort of generational PTSD in Feds and the PD's in those cities.

That's no excuse whatsoever mind ye...But it's also something I can at least understand knowing where it comes from.

Prolly should y'know use some of the six figure salaries some of those assholes get to pay for some kind of training that convinces them legions of Filas Brasileros won't be converging on them every time they go to some white collar offending grandpas house...though. View attachment 569

You are still very wrong about the NSA currently.
That is the main thing.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You are still very wrong about the NSA currently.
That is the main thing.

I think you're naïve or being forced to do damage control by professional obligations and time will tell which one of us is correct.

they just helped overthrow our government, the boys are back in town and we'll see how well they behave themselves now that they got their king in the whitehouse.

 

[Doomsought]

I think intelligence gathering is a minor act of military belligerence and gathering military intelligence on US citizens should be treated no different than firing a weapon on US citizens. Cryptology algorithms have been classified as ordinance before, so there is plenty of legal precedent.

The biggest problem with our intelligence agencies is the way they have treated cryptology and computer security has sabotaged our civilian infrastructure.

 

[Zachowon]

I think you're naïve or being forced to do damage control by professional obligations and time will tell which one of us is correct.

they just helped overthrow our government, the boys are back in town and we'll see how well they behave themselves now that they got their king in the whitehouse.

I am going off what I have seen with my own eyes, and told through my uppers that have been in longer and worked more directly with them

I think intelligence gathering is a minor act of military belligerence and gathering military intelligence on US citizens should be treated no different than firing a weapon on US citizens. Cryptology algorithms have been classified as ordinance before, so there is plenty of legal precedent.

The biggest problem with our intelligence agencies is the way they have treated cryptology and computer security has sabotaged our civilian infrastructure.

That is a good bit correct

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I think intelligence gathering is a minor act of military belligerence and gathering military intelligence on US citizens should be treated no different than firing a weapon on US citizens. Cryptology algorithms have been classified as ordinance before, so there is plenty of legal precedent.

The biggest problem with our intelligence agencies is the way they have treated cryptology and computer security has sabotaged our civilian infrastructure.

That seems to be a problem across the Americas.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Fine from now on, when I bully NSA agents I'll tell rainman jokes for the sake of accuracy View attachment 566



They very likely have bugged millions of Americans and continue to watch them. Patriot act yay! But it was probably and continues to likely be due to the drug trade and organized crime more than terrorism...though I wouldn't be surprised if every White person in the US is under NSA surveillance after Biden and his Coolie mistress stole the whitehouse.

edit- Basically what I'm saying is the United States Government stopped working and we are now in a third world country..Having escaped from one, I know what one looks like.

And we are totally that...View attachment 567



Those kids at WACO and Ruby Ridge deserved it damnit! They were Fat shaming our bold, beautiful agents!

Fuck'n A if I were a gun runner I'd pay some dude to follow these fuckers around with a tuba. No wait, they'd probably stress eat the guy with the Tuba View attachment 568

The ATF recently tweeted a memorial to the Waco ATF members who died. The reactions didn't believe them and called their shit.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The ATF recently tweeted a memorial to the Waco ATF members who died. The reactions didn't believe them and called their shit.

The only thing I feel sad about is that those miserable child killers didn't live long enough to be charged, convicted and slapped on Deathrow right beside Koresh.

Fuck those fat bastards.

 

[Arch Dornan]

The only thing I feel sad about is that those miserable child killers didn't live long enough to be charged, convicted and slapped on Deathrow right beside Koresh.

Fuck those fat bastards.

There's an introspective duality to all this. Do nasty shit overseas and if it gets leaked it's screamed as a war crime or it gets sweeped into a carpet.

Do your nasty shit domestically and it raises questions. I have no doubt about how much the ATF fucked up when they had to bring in a tank and you have dead children in the aftermath. They can bitch about their targets being armed but bringing their entire arsenal like it's time to be vietnam drugged up cowboys isn't looking good for them.

One of these days Waco 2.0 will have drone strikes with a hellfire missile on American soil and they'll pose on their dead bodies.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

The ATF recently tweeted a memorial to the Waco ATF members who died. The reactions didn't believe them and called their shit.

Y'know, this is one of the few times where I agree with BLM: "ATF in a blanket; fry them like bacon!"
These bastards posed over the corpses of the people they murdered, they ignored any shot at resolving Waco peacefully, they gloated about this, and not one of them got punished. It's enough to drive any sane man to vigilante justice.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

"PLEASE STAND BY"

New thread! Keep things on topic and civil please.

***STATIC***

 

[Captain X]

There's an introspective duality to all this. Do nasty shit overseas and if it gets leaked it's screamed as a war crime or it gets sweeped into a carpet.

Do your nasty shit domestically and it raises questions. I have no doubt about how much the ATF fucked up when they had to bring in a tank and you have dead children in the aftermath. They can bitch about their targets being armed but bringing their entire arsenal like it's time to be vietnam drugged up cowboys isn't looking good for them.

One of these days Waco 2.0 will have drone strikes with a hellfire missile on American soil and they'll pose on their dead bodies.

I don't know if there really is all that many questions that have been raised as far as the general public, though. To me, it seems like most people just go along with what the government said about both Waco and Ruby Ridge, in spite of any evidence that got brought up. Remembering back to the congressional hearing on Waco, a lot of it came down to the members of the committee having a really obvious bias against the people at Waco over their religious beliefs, and they seemed to think that "they were weirdos" just justified everything. So what if there actually were some crimes those people committed - nothing they were accused of justified rolling up in a disguised vehicle (a livestock trailer IIRC) and trying to gun people down right out of hand. My view is that the ATF and FBI were playing at being soldiers and are essentially cry-bullying because they weren't able to just massacre their intended victims without taking some losses themselves. It was very much about sending a message to right-wingers, which is that the storm-troopers will come rolling in and kill anyone who doesn't go along with what they want.

 

[Arch Dornan]

I don't know if there really is all that many questions that have been raised as far as the general public, though. To me, it seems like most people just go along with what the government said about both Waco and Ruby Ridge, in spite of any evidence that got brought up. Remembering back to the congressional hearing on Waco, a lot of it came down to the members of the committee having a really obvious bias against the people at Waco over their religious beliefs, and they seemed to think that "they were weirdos" just justified everything. So what if there actually were some crimes those people committed - nothing they were accused of justified rolling up in a disguised vehicle (a livestock trailer IIRC) and trying to gun people down right out of hand. My view is that the ATF and FBI were playing at being soldiers and are essentially cry-bullying because they weren't able to just massacre their intended victims without taking some losses themselves. It was very much about sending a message to right-wingers, which is that the storm-troopers will come rolling in and kill anyone who doesn't go along with what they want.

How gestapo of them.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

How gestapo of them.

Ironiccally if they had rolled up on them a few years prior when Koresh was actually, leading a violent sectarian revolt against the Rodens they would have been lauded as heroes. Instead they were too busy being used as cannon fodder by the Cuban community in Miami in their war against Pablo Escobar.

Oh and getting humiliated by the Irish mafia and getting emasculated by the Jamaican shower Posse to the point the point that they needed to be bailed out by the fucking Broward Cowards (And yes a very young sheriff Israel was involved in that IIRC) and getting thrown out of Brickel by a Miami police chief who literally had a mountain of cocaine on his desk and served as partial inspiration for Tony Montana.

What I'm trying to say is that outside of their investigations into serial killers the FBI was the laughingstock of the global law enforcement community and it got so bad they were called "Hoover's fuckboys" in official memos in Taiwan and Japan.

The ATF wasn't that far behind.

Oh remind me to tell you of the tale of how a Native American Neo Naziesque terrorist organization/Native American Mafia used strippers to bait numerous Federal agencies into turning into their personal militias by making simps out of all the agents sent after them.

The final two decades of the cold war were a really shitty period for American Federal Law Enforcement and they're so neurotic and hyper aggressive today because they're sill insecure and ashamed of back then.

Y'know, this is one of the few times where I agree with BLM: "ATF in a blanket; fry them like bacon!"
These bastards posed over the corpses of the people they murdered, they ignored any shot at resolving Waco peacefully, they gloated about this, and not one of them got punished. It's enough to drive any sane man to vigilante justice.

You know why it was done right? And I'm not defending Koresh because he was a pretty bad dude and a pedophile and he led a violent rebellion against the son of the founder of the Davidians and essentially took it over like some Mojahadeen coup. But the reason it happened?

Limbaugh early in his career and Wally George and a few others basically bullied the shit out of Reno and rightly pointed out someone loaded on dopamine and other meds to control her parkinsons was in no way fit to be AG.

Her solution was to turn the most fucked up elements of the FBI and the ATF loose at Waco to prove that she wasn't a twitchy weakling and an evil cripple. Both agencies likewise sought to use the WACO thing to save face and recover their image

They were slaughtered so a cripple, a drug addict who hung out with Harlem mobsters (Seriously look up the head of the FBI at that point and the circles he ran in) and the High Cholerstol king of the fat asses could salvage their wounded pride and feel less butthurt.

Fuck everyone involved, fuck Koresh that degenerate, fuck that neuroblasted convulsive lesbo, fuck that crack head and fuck the ATF. They were all a bunch of preening divas who used children as fodder for their impiety and vanity.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

You know why it was done right? And I'm not defending Koresh because he was a pretty bad dude and a pedophile and he led a violent rebellion against the son of the founder of the Davidians and essentially took it over like some Mojahadeen coup. But the reason it happened?

I'm well aware that Koresh was a piece of shit, but the ATF could've resolved the matter any time he went out of the complex into the town nearby.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I'm well aware that Koresh was a piece of shit, but the ATF could've resolved the matter any time he went out of the complex into the town nearby.

Nah, but see Renos girlfriend was all "EYY BABE COME ON YOU GONNA LET DEM TALK TO YOU LIKE DAT?!"

And apparently Eric Holder put to paper in an official recommendation that "the ATF should breach because a bunch of dead white kids would do a lot to discredit the notion that we only breach crack houses"

Imagine that...

edit- also see my edited in bit about the FBI being turned into simps by Native American mobster nazis. Basically the whole Federal Law Enforcement apparatus needed to rehab their image and the Davidians were going to be slaughtered no matter what happened.

Because the Feds thought it would somehow make them look nobler. I think what we need to realize, is that our Federal law enforcement apparatus is by and large populated by a mixture of tumblerites, retards, literal retards, druggies and people who self harm to relieve stress.

And that the low IQ/mental health/political spazzing of these people is a direct threat to our national security and we should be aggressively lobbying our politicians to shut them down and turn back law enforcement duties to a mixture of groups like the Pinkertons and local police.