Christians and evangelicals of the sietch are Jews still gods chosen people?
- Thread starter King Arts
- Start date
For context from last thread:
The existence of the New Covenant does not mean the one that existed in the old testament is no longer valid, which is confirmed by genesis 17:7, which says the Covenant between God and the jews shall be everlasting.
The existence of the New Covenant does not mean the one that existed in the old testament is no longer valid, which is confirmed by genesis 17:7, which says the Covenant between God and the jews shall be everlasting.
King Arts
Well-known member
So bringing up covenants there are a few schools of thought the big ones are supersessionism where the old covenant is no longer valid and there a pre a variety of arguments for it. The other one is dual covenant. Where God made a new deal with mankind through Jesus, but the old Mosaic covenant is still valid. This can be interpreted in a few ways from Jews not needing to be saved at all which is obviously wrong by basic Christian learning, or the other argument that it does apply towards Jews so they are still blessed so long as they are faithful to God. Since gods covenant is not a free gift look at the Old Testament when the Jews are righteous God protects and blesses them when they turn away from him he casts them out of the land and they are cursed and enslaved. Most Jews would agree with this part god punishes them when they break their vow with god. Now most Jews think they are right with god because they obey the commandments Worship god and stay away from idolatry. But if Christianity is true then Jews have turned away from God by rejecting Jesus. If Jesus is not God this doesn’t apply but you have to accept Jesus is god to be a Christian you can’t square this peg.
Well, I'm not sure you can classify ANY people (Specific culture or ethnicity) as God's Chosen people anymore.
John 14:6-7 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus is pretty clear here, that the path to God is through Him. So you've got to accept Jesus in order to be with God.
Romans tells how God has placed a veil over the Jews for their turning away from Christ. Revelations then goes to say that this veil will be removed during the time of tribulations where something like 177,000 Jews will become missionaries of Christ.
As of right now, the Jews are NOT God's Chosen people. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their savior are.
John 14:6-7 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus is pretty clear here, that the path to God is through Him. So you've got to accept Jesus in order to be with God.
Romans tells how God has placed a veil over the Jews for their turning away from Christ. Revelations then goes to say that this veil will be removed during the time of tribulations where something like 177,000 Jews will become missionaries of Christ.
As of right now, the Jews are NOT God's Chosen people. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their savior are.
I know it was brought up in the other thread, but this thread title doesn't mention it.
Prosperity Gospel like Joel Osteen preached is NOT Christianity.
Prosperity Gospel like Joel Osteen preached is NOT Christianity.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
And I don't know of a single denomination, organization, or church, that considers Osteen not to be a heretic. Usually even other personality cults consider him to be heretical.
bintananth
behind a desk
And then you have guys like Kenneth Copeland:
An Imam I know says "When you see someone in need, you help them." Kenneth Copeland certainly doesn't even try to do that.
King Arts
Well-known member
You can argue that Christianity and Islam are subsects of Judaism lol. I mean they grew and seperated alot. Hell it grew so much that you can argue Judaism is a subset of Christianity since Christianity is the larger one.
But as for Jesus being a Jew, that depends on what you mean. If you mean racially/ethnically yes Jesus is a Jew his mother was a Jew, his culture was Jewish. But if you mean religiously then no. Because if Jesus was Jewish then Christianity is false automatically and maybe Islam also.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Islam still considers Jews and Christians to be people of the book, and not outright infidels, with Jesus actually being a prophet.
Islam and Christianity both incorporate the old testament.
They are basically the Militant Chad and Easymode mass marked versions of Judaism, IMHO.
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King Arts
Well-known member
Yes all these religions are related and come from a common source Abraham. But the big difference between Judaism and Christianity is belief in Jesus being divine. If Jesus says he is not divine then(because it’s against god’s nature to lie. Then Christianity is not true and it’s between Islam and Judaism. In IslamJesus is a prophet in Judaism Jesus is nothing now a prophet would know he is a prophet so if Jesus is a Jew religion wise then he will just think of himself as a regular Rabbi.
Also what is militandchad?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Christianity and Islam may have arisen from Judaism, but in terms of theology and religious practice, they are both extremely different. Even if you decided to call Judaism a big umbrella (which is kind of antithetical to Judaism) you’d still need a word to describe what we now call Jews.
posh-goofiness
Well-known member
Of course not. Even a basic review of the catechism teaches you that. :/
*cough* Sorry, the pre-Vatican II catechism, that is.
*cough* Sorry, the pre-Vatican II catechism, that is.
King Arts
Well-known member
Oh, you meant to say militant chads. Ok.
I'm not Catholic what does the current one say?
If you're a hardcore tambourine shaker, isn't the answer automatically yes? I was under the impression a lot of hardcore Evangelicals were of the mine that they get into heaven automatically no matter how evil they are and it was the duty of all Christians to serve them in paradise for eternity.
At least that's what a lot of us immigrants believe and why you've got so many immigrants that are mistrusting of the Roman Church and Evangelicals in equal measure albeit for different reasons.
At least that's what a lot of us immigrants believe and why you've got so many immigrants that are mistrusting of the Roman Church and Evangelicals in equal measure albeit for different reasons.
The bible is pretty clear on what gets you into heaven. If what you say about 'hardcore Evangelicals' is true to what they believe...they better get used to disappointment.
Yeah I don't think its a widely held belief so much as something a very vocal minority embraces.
King Arts
Well-known member
That’s why I say evangelicals are not Christians. The only way to god the father is through Christ that is why he is the WAY the truth and the life. I mean under evangelicals belief why even join them instead of just being a Jew.
I grew up in the evangelical church, and I've never heard anything of the sort. I think you should maybe do a bit more research on what people believe than some guy going "hey, I hear this is what evangelical's believe".