No we arnt bacle.
China ship building is horrendous for war. No matter how many subs they build, they will not be able to effectively take on the USN.
No we arnt bacle.
China ship building is horrendous for war. No matter how many subs they build, they will not be able to effectively take on the USN.
How many subs, ships, and shipyards are we building per year?
Because it seems like the USN is lucky to get a sub and ship per year, and we haven't opened or reopened a shipyard in a long time.
'Quantity has a quality all it's own' is a truism for a reason.
Sure, the Chinese may not have ships or subs up to our quality, but with enough of them, they won't need to be high quality.
Bacle.
We produce more anti sub and anti ship missles then they do.
We have the capability to launch more then they do.
We just dint because there is no need.
Anti-ship/anti-sub munitions still need something to carry them and get them in range of the target, and can still be jammed or decoyed.
And no amount of munitions can make up for lack of shipyard space or ship/sub production, because a war with China (assuming DC gets cleaned out of CCP agents, including POTUS, and actually fights) is not going to be like WW2 where we have the time to churn out lots of ships rapidly. We no longer have the industrial or shipyard capacity for that.
I mean shit, we have like 1 CVN size construction slip in the whole country, and I don't think we even have a CVN capable drydock or slip on the West Coast.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Bremerton has several drydocks capable of holding a CVN and Pearl Harbor has one. And we have extra several slips that could build them assuming the yards in question were willing to spend the dough to become nuclear construction capable. Plus we build carriers significantly slower than we could. If need be we could pump out a carrier every 3 years from Newport News instead of the 5ish we currently do
The older CVNs, maybe.
The Ford's...unless they've extended and enlarged those drydocks, I don't think the Ford's will fit in them. They cannot fit through the Panama Canal, last I heard.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
I don't know, but apparently that's just stock footage the CCP stole of a police dog in Moldova:
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Bacle.
You do know come the time of war, total war, every civilian infrastructure will be used for military construction. Any shipyard building civilian craft? Turned to building Navy ships
We also have a superior air force and superior intel gathering capabilities (which a lot of people seem to want us to get rid of..).
We are also more then capable of making sure they can't produce any paper mache ships. (Because the quality of those ships is most likely horrendous)
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
No CVNs or for that Super Carriers can fit through the Panama Canal even with the new locks, they're too fat on the flight deck for that. And the Ford's aren't much bigger than the Nimitz class in terms of dimensions.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Actually I just checked out the two classes dimensions. Other than the Fords having a bit more draft they're identical
Yes, and repurposing/retooling civie infrastructure to wartime production cannot be done overnight, and ships/subs cannot be built overnight if you want them to be of decent quality.
I mean if we just want to start creating new batches of Fletcher's or Gato/Balao's with modern weapons onboard in the old mounts, maybe we could ramp up fast enough to deal with China, but that still leaves crew training and shakedown time constraints.
As for the intel part...if the intel community wants the public to trust them to actually be defenders of nation and keepers of secrets again, there needs to be a lot of house cleaning done on the upper levels, and the CIA/FBI need a complete SCOTUS-level audit of their behaviors/activities on US soil.
Wait, I thought the Nimitz's could fit through the canal because thier flightdeck were high enough off the water that the narrower portion of the hull near the waterline was canal complaint.
Bacle, do you know how modern warfare works at all? Especially with the navy?
Basically if the US have thier destroyers and Subs in a carrier group having thier active Sonar, China doesn't have the range we do on them.
Oh, I'm very well aware of how modern warfare works.
I'm also aware of how many times overconfidence has completely fucked militaries who thought they were the biggest dog in town.
The world has known since Vietnam that they don't need to beat us militarily, they just need to outlast us till the domestic situation becomes unfavorable towards the conflict.
I would rather err on the side of underestimating the US based on publicly available data, and overestimating those we may face using the same data, than the other way around.
Bacle.
You honestly know nothing.
We are "overconfident" because we are honestly prepared for LSCO on the Naval and Air force front more then the Army.
We have already tested a 6th gen fighter. We had been working on a railgun since the 2000s at least. Have lasers in development.
We have the most powerful military in the world.
China also has diesel subs over Nuclear last I checked. They can not outlast us in that regard. They would also suffer a LARGE domestic issue if we were to go to war with them bacle.
Millions would die and a rebellion would happen in China.
But yes focus on the paper mache navy they have like it is the end of the world....
Diesels subs can kill shit in litorals just as easy as nuke subs, are quieter, and nuclear tipped torps are a thing. So are undersea overhangs/caves, which can hide stationary diesel subs (or just remote torp mines) from active sonar till they launch their weapons or activate.
Also, how about those nearly 200 more ICBM silo's the CCP constructed overnight, which require another 200 or so warhead to hold at risk? Warheads we are not matching China in production of.
Or the gaint tunnel system they've built to make sure they have a survivable second strike capability outside of thier subs?
Or thier ability to just fucking massacre dissedents/rebels to suppress internal revolt? You do remember what happened in Tianimen Square, right?
I may not know as much as you (you know, you being an Intel guy and all) but I know enough to not be overconfident in US abilities and not to underestimate those we may face.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Nope they'd need at least a couple more decks worth of freeboard to pull that off
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Also I discovered something a few minutes ago weirdly enough the CVN's don't hold the record for the carrier with the most freeboard that goes to HMS Ark Royal of crippling the Bismarck fame
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Huh, I could have sworn I've seen images of a Nimitz transiting the canal.
Maybe they were of a old Forrestal class instead.
You are overconfident in China.
You do know they are vastly a paper army, not ad bad as North Korea but enough. They do not have power projection. They can barley make a 4th gen fighter, let alone a 5th gen fighter.
You mean how we still have more nukes and warheads then them and can easily make more because last I checked, we kept those facilities...
You mean how we have multiple tunnel systems and bunkers made to withstand nuclear war? The base I am on has them dude, a fycking Army base in Central fucking TX...
Massacre dissedents eh? In this day and age? Ha.
You do know that protests and riots are basically standard in China right? They are so common that it is hard to ficking hide them fully. Add in a rebellion on the scale that would happen from the gorges dam bursting would be to big. A starving country and all. Should I mention they have tried to cover up the massacre but still have failed?
Bacle. We know we will defeat them. We know we will face a bloody war.
The thing is, we also won't be in this alone.
Yes, I am aware of China's short comings; their jet engines are shit, this is known.
There is a reason my doubts center on sea power, not air power.
Also, I'm not sold on our warhead production capabilities after learning about the FOGxLIGHT fuck up and the issues it highlighted. The DoE's internal classification system and issues with personnel familiar with thing retiring or dying without passing on critical knowledge is a real issue forcing us to reverse engineer some of our own shit.
As for tunnels...we have hardened underground bits of major bases (and things like Cheyenne Mountain); China has literally built thousands of miles of interconnected tunnels over massive parts of it's interior that go between bases, silo's, and other bits. The even call it thier new Great Wall.
Now unless one of my vet friends from my legal weed trimming days is actually right about the rumors of massive secret railways and tunnels crisscrossing the US and kept hidden from the public, which I doubt due to how hard it is to hide that shit from seismic sensors and gov funding watchdogs if it really is to that scale, then we don't have anything truly comparable.
However I was not aware of continuing and active large scale protests in China, outside the shit in Hong Kong.
And you are right we aren't in it alone, but neither is China. The already have a defense pact with Iran, effectively own Pakistan and NK, and I would not count out Russia possibly siding with them in a fight (or just making a move on the Baltics to drain US forces via another front).
That's not even counting the CCP agents in our gov and how they are very likely to make sure there is no war with China, or nothing beyond possible SCS/Taiwan Straight skirmishes at most.
The way the variables seemed stacked, based on what's available to the public, and the way things are going politically on the domestic and international scene...not encouraging it the nicest way I can put it.