bintananth
behind a desk
If you think JMSDF ships aren't also intended to operate as part of a group there's this nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd be willing to sell you for one penny, and I'll give you the penny.
Do they operate in a group with a super carrier that has more aircraft then any group the JMSDF has?
How large is the battlegroup the JMSDF has? How does it compare to a Carrier group or two?
bintananth
behind a desk
The US is the only country which can say "We've got more carriers than Japan does" and the USN has logistical and strategic issues when more than one is stationed nearby.
Uh...you do know we often have two catrier groups near China right?
Also, every country has more carriers then Japan, unless you are counting helicopter carriers
bintananth
behind a desk
I am counting the helicopter carriers.
BTW, at any given moment only about 5-6 of the USN CVNs and the USN "that's totally not a carrier" are on deployment.
And a single US Carrier strike group has more firepower then the JMSDF has \
bintananth
behind a desk
It's also extremely vunerable to just one torpedo. Exercises have shown that diesel-electric subs can slip through the escort screen completely undetected.
The USN leased a sub from Sweden for two years that was built in early-to-mid 90s and would probably still have issues tracking it assuming they even can.
Having the biggest stick means nothing if the wielder is crippled before they can swing it.
You do know we can detect those right? Almost everytime Subs were never in play. Because Sonar exists for a reason.
Active can give a ship away just as well as a visual look. So passive is used when no need.
We are also limited in our capabilities during training.
I can assure you, in actual war we won't be so nice in what we use, and the enemy can not hide.
People always go "You see, a diesel sub can sneak up on a carrier fleet!" And they fire a torpedo that doesn't kill the ship, give them selves away and die a horrible death.
In a real combat situation, of a sub gets close enough to launcha torpedo, it will be the last thing it ever does, as well as what ever the country did to do that.
@Sailor.X you were in the Navy. How true are these claims?
Nice straw man. You were the one who brought up the comparison between a Burke and JMSDF equivalent.
But now your saying a Helicopter Destroyer Bsttlegroup (which AFAIK doesn't exist in Japan's doctrine) can defeat or is an even match for a US Carrier Battlegroup?
Yes Diesel Electric Submarines can be very quiet whilst in slowly moving minefield mode.
There's also a world of difference between the scale of Naval Operations in the Baltic and Western Pacific. And pointing out Japanese sub capability and not American submarine threats to this hypothetical Japanese battlegroup in that regard is a curious exemption.
There isn't a Chinese sub on the planet that can sneak up on any Surface ship let alone the USN. This very year both the Royal Navy and the Japanese Navy exposed CCP subs trying to tail them. CCP subs are that loud even on battery.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
The US is never going to fight China; not if our establishment has anything to say about it. Honestly, I'd give better odds of us attacking Japan on China's behalf; which I'm sure would be dressed up in such a way as to be palatable to the "international community", i.e. the globalists.
Yeah, no that won't happen.
There is nothing in the current world that we would join in on attacking Japan or South Korea.
We will go to war with China before the end of the Decade
Unfortunately, I think you're right. And my pessimistic brain says that it will happen, NOT because China attacks Taiwan, but b/c we force the issue somehow. I see it as focussing domestic attention away from the US National scene because of stupid happening in DC to gain MORE POWER!!!
Some idiot in charge is gonna say, "All we need is a short, victorious war."
Under many conditions they don't have anything to say about it.
China attacking US military bases in Japan and the US deciding to do nothing would be the political party equivalent of the US ignoring Japan after it bombed Pearl Harbour. IE a political party death sentence for whichever political party does it.
I mean, the current party attacked a bunch of innocents including kids in response to 13 service members getting killed
Maybe we should be looking for ways to avoid armed conflict with near-peer nuclear powers, such as maybe reshoring the shit we are currently dependent on Taiwan for, and/or giving Taiwan a direct nuclear umbrella instead of trying to keep with this 'Two China's' farce that Taiwan is not an independent nation.
Either Taiwan is worth giving nukes, or it is not worth a single US servicemen's life; there is no in between.
Either Taiwan is worth giving nukes, or it is not worth a single US servicemen's life; there is no in between.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
The problem is, our establishment doesn't want to oppose China in any way; they think they're making too much money off of it, and a lot of them are more ideologically aligned with the CCP then they are with the American people.
Except you forget about the people who need a war with the CCP to happen, to justify themselves and their worldviews regarding the US military needing to 'show how tough it is'.
Also, we cannot go full 1984 is we are not at war with East Asia.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
No, what they want/need is a war with Russia; and that's what they've been pushing towards for years. Sure, they talk about the threat China poses, but it's all posturing; else they wouldn't have thrown open the doors to the CCP to subvert this country.