Book Club Thread 3: Witch World

[Bear Ribs]

Berserker by Fred Saberhagen

Spoiler

Long ago, in a distant part of the galaxy, two alien races met--and fought a war of mutual extinction. The sole legacy of that war was the weapon that ended it: the death machines, the BERSERKERS. Guided by self-aware computers more intelligent than any human, these world-sized battlecraft carved a swath of death through the galaxy--until they arrived at the outskirts of the fledgling Empire of Man.

These are the stories of the frail creatures who must meet this monstrous and implacable enemy--and who, by fighting it to a standstill, become the saviors of all living things.

For Love of Mother Not by Alan Dean Foster

Spoiler

From bestselling author Alan Dean Foster, an exciting early Pip and Flinx novel that shows the origins of a certain boy with special powers--and the mini-dragon that becomes his devoted sidekick. . . .

Flinx was just a freckle-faced, redheaded kid with green eyes and a strangely compelling stare when Mather Mastiff first saw him an the auctioneer's block. One hundred credits and he was hers.

For years the old woman was his only family. She loved him, fed him, taught him everything she knew--even let him keep the deadly flying dragon he called Pip. But when Mother Mastiff mysteriously disappears, Flinx tails her kidnappers on a dangerous journey. Across the forests and swamps of the winged world called Moth, their only weapons are Pip's venom . . . and Flinx's unusual talent.

Grunts by Mary Gentle

Spoiler

Alternate cover edition can be found here.

The usual last battle of Good against Evil is about to begin, and Orc Captain Ashnak and his war-band know exactly what to expect. The forces of Light are outnumbered, full of headstrong heroes devoid of tactics, but the Light's still going to win. Orcs will die by the thousands, and no one cares. No even the Nameless Necromancer who hired them.

Illusion by Paula Volsky

Spoiler

One of fantasy's brightest new stars makes her Bantam debut with a colorful, sweeping high fantasy epic set against the fires of revolution. In the land of Vonahr, the Exalted have ruled by virtue of their legendary magical abilities for centuries, heedless of the misery of the lower classes. Now revolution is in the air. . . .

For two hundred years the Exalted classes have used their dazzling magical abilities to rule Vonahr. Now, their powers grown slack from disuse and their attention turned to decadent pleasures, they ignore the misery of the lower classes until the red tide of revolution sweeps across the land. Thrust into the center of the conflict is the beautiful Eliste vo Derrivalle, spirited daughter of a provincial landowner, who must now scramble for bread in the teeming streets of the capital. With the key to her magical abilities an elusive secret, she must suddenly find a way to survive in a world gone mad ... with liberty.

Illusion is a work of fantasy on the grandest scale - a seamless web of passion, danger, heroism, and romance that will hold you spellbound from the first page to the last.

The Rediscovery of Man(SF Masterworks edition) by Cordwainer Smith

Spoiler

Cordwainer Smith was one of the original visionaries to think of humanity in terms of thousands of years in the future, spread out across the universe. This brilliant collection, often cited as the first of its kind, explores fundamental questions about ourselves and our treatment of the universe (and other beings) around us and ultimately what it means to be human.
Contents:
* Cordwainer Smith: The Shaper of Myths (1975) • essay by John J. Pierce [as by J. J. Pierce]
* The Instrumentality of Mankind (timeline) (1975) • essay by John J. Pierce
* Scanners Live in Vain [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1950) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith: meet Martel, a human altered to be part machine-a scanner-to be able withstand the trauma space travel has on the body. Despite the stigma placed on him and his kind, he is able to regrasp his humanity to save another; Fantasy Book #6 ’50
* The Lady Who Sailed The Soul [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1960) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith, Genevieve Linebarger; Galaxy Apr ’60
* The Game of Rat and Dragon [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1955) / short story by Cordwainer Smith; Galaxy Oct ’55
* The Burning of the Brain [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1958) / short story by Cordwainer Smith; If Oct ’58
* Golden the Ship Was - Oh! Oh! Oh! [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1959) / short story by Cordwainer Smith, Genevieve Linebarger; Amazing Apr ’59
* The Crime and the Glory of Commander Suzdal [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1964) / short story by Cordwainer Smith; Amazing May ’64
* The Dead Lady of Clown Town [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1964) / novella by Cordwainer Smith: get to know the underpeople-animals genetically altered to exist in human form, to better serve their human owners-and meet D'Joan, a dog-woman who will make readers question who is more human: the animals who simply want to be recognized as having the same right to life, or the people who created them to be inferior; Galaxy Aug ’64
* Under Old Earth [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1966) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith; Galaxy Feb ’66
* Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1961) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith; Galaxy Jun ’61
* Alpha Ralpha Boulevard [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1961) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith; Galaxy Jun ’61
* The Ballad of Lost C'mell [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1962) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith: the notion of love being the most important equalizer there is, is put into action when an underperson, C'mell, falls in love with Lord Jestocost. Who is to say her love for him is not as valid as any true-born human? She might be of cat descent, but she is all woman!; Galaxy Oct ’62
* A Planet Named Shayol [The Instrumentality of Mankind] (1961) / novelette by Cordwainer Smith: it is an underperson of bull descent, and beings so mutilated and deformed from their original human condition to be now considered demons of a hellish land, who retain and display the most humanity when Mankind commits the most inhumane action of all; Galaxy Oct ’61

Witch World by Andre Norton

Spoiler

Andre Norton enthralled readers for decades with thrilling tales of people challenged to the limits of their endurance in epic battles of good against evil. None are more memorable than her Witch World novels. Simon Tregarth, a man from our own world, escapes his doom through the gates to the Witch World. There he aids the witch Jaelithe's escape from the hounds of Alizon, only to find himself embroiled in a deeper war against an even deadlier foe: the Kolder.

 

[Argent]

So I voted for my choice Grunts becasue it sounds likes a fun read to me.

I also voted for becasue I like that type ISOT stories. It also sound like an interesting plotline.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I voted for Grunts but fear I'll have to change it, I can't find a copy at my local libraries and nine bucks for the Kindle Edition is a little steep.

Also, it's got horrible search engine optimization. It's possible the libraries have it, but the author's names... both of them... generate an octillion false positives each and the title Grunts does the same thing.

 

[Terthna]

The only thing I've read before that Andre Norton has written, was that collaboration she did with Marion Zimmer Bradley and Julian May, on the book Black Trillium (which I'll probably end up suggesting at some point). I'm not entirely sure what parts of that book was hers, but I remember enjoying the whole thing enough to read it multiple times, so I'm optimistic about Witch World.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I voted for Grunts but fear I'll have to change it, I can't find a copy at my local libraries and nine bucks for the Kindle Edition is a little steep.

Also, it's got horrible search engine optimization. It's possible the libraries have it, but the author's names... both of them... generate an octillion false positives each and the title Grunts does the same thing.

I have been wanting to read that novel for ages but have been unable to find it.

 

[Bear Ribs]

And Witch World is our winner for this month. Let's get reading!

 

[DarthOne]

For anyone who wants to get a copy of the book for free, might I suggest zlibrary and the calibre ebook reader? I can assure that both of them are safe, with no sign up or other shenanigans.

calibre - E-book management

calibre: The one stop solution for all your e-book needs. Comprehensive e-book software.

calibre-ebook.com

unfortunately, thanks to our Beloved Overlords in the US government, zlibrary can only be accessed via tor.

http://bookszlibb74ugqojhzhg2a63w5i2atv5bqarulgczawnbmsb6s6qead.onion/

 

[Bear Ribs]

Only barely started this one, couldn't get the audiobook so I'm going old school and couldn't listen at work.

Going to start with... do I need to spoiler the cover? Nah. Man that's a zany cover, the guy's bird hat is ridiculous. Alternate covers from other printings also have him wearing different bird hats so I predict bird hats are actually in the story proper for some reason.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Alright, finished the first five chapters, about 14%.

Spoiler

Ah, 1968, when 20K was real money. I ran an inflation calculator, his stash would be worth about 162,000 today.

I hadn't realized this was a western Isekai, or as it was called then, Planetary Romance. Definitely digging the mechanism and I love how classy Jorge is. "A luck piece? By all means keep it, you can never have too much luck."

The opening battle worked out well and a lot of the detailing stands out to me, the girl having a split lip, emaciated and scratched skin, general wear and tear. She's lacking all sex appeal due to her energies as opposed to the ethereal beauty a modern Isekai wish fulfilment story would have. Simon himself has a big advantage from his gun but misses and hits the arms in several shots rather than being a supernaturally good shot.

Norton's style is very evocative and I notice how often her descriptions include smells, something I don't see as often in stories. She describes the rot of the swamps, the subtleties of wines, the smell of fresh earth, and the like fairly frequently.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I'm close to the same place I believe. I am interested, but not getting pulled in real heavily. I think it's more that I've got lots going on right now more than a specific lack in the novel.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Finished part 1, about 24%.

Spoiler

Little bit of an infodump after the first action scene that catches us up on the nature of Witch World and what I take to be the primary conflict with the Kolder. It's not terrible but it feels like it might have been better done as actual conversations between people rather than just narrating that Simon learned these things.

Simon's skillset is suitable for his character, rather than a modern typical Isekai with improbably downloaded skills he's a hardboiled pulp detective/gangster type and it shows, he's crap with a sword, great with a pistol, and a better fistfighter than most of his contemporaries.

I took Koris for a Dwarf the first time around but it seems more and more likely there really aren't any races but humans, and Koris' odd gorilla body is just a result of his parentage. Although it still seems like he's a half-dwarf or something given it's explicitly the result of his dad boning a foreign bride. Maybe Norton's just not using traditional names for these people.

Our first battle's an interesting one and heart-wrenching to see Koris going up against his own people, his own friends who've had their souls ripped out to turn them into automatons, and his crying out their names while ordering them all killed to free their minds from the soulless corpse-fighters. Simon proves suitably badass without being ridiculous.

Magic plays a role in combat but by having the Witch do it and Simon not understanding it, it feels more mystical than a lot of more modern stuff. I really liked him helping her carve wooden toy boats which she then turned into an illusory fleet to scare away a possible invasion. I have no clear grasp on what magic can and can't do which pretty much means magic can't be the keystone of the final plot resolution or it will feel like an ass-pull. The fight is also interesting, the simple strategies like using barrels full of metal balls that will make a racket when a door's slammed open work pretty well and this does double-duty, both to show how hopelessly outnumbered the defenders are that a barrel full of balls has to be their only protection in some tunnels and to show that they're clever types who rely more on guile than brute force, classic heroes against an evil empire.

I'm not sure how Kolder attacked for the air but my current theory is magic zeppelins.

 

[ATP]

And Witch World is our winner for this month. Let's get reading!

I read that long time ago.Good,solid fantasy.Well,first two.Later was worst.To the point that i still remember what happened in first,and almost nothing about next.
Idea of King Arthur legacy used to made money by letting people with money who are hunted by everybody run to other worlds is great.

 

[Ixian]

I had a late start, but have finally reached the halfway point.

Spoiler: Spoilers

It is as well written as I remember, and the main cast is well rounded.

I suppose my first nitpick is that Simon's .45 seemingly vanishing some point before the siege from Kolder, logically I would guess he ran out of ammunition, but the book could have at least mentioned it.

The next nitpick is the fact that rape is a very real threat for the Witchs of Escarp, and while it causes no narrative problems with the story, it is something I'm squeamish about.

Overall it's been an enjoyable re-read!

As to how the Kolder launched an arial attack, all I can say is "Occams Razor".

 

[ATP]

Finished part 1, about 24%.

Spoiler

Little bit of an infodump after the first action scene that catches us up on the nature of Witch World and what I take to be the primary conflict with the Kolder. It's not terrible but it feels like it might have been better done as actual conversations between people rather than just narrating that Simon learned these things.

Simon's skillset is suitable for his character, rather than a modern typical Isekai with improbably downloaded skills he's a hardboiled pulp detective/gangster type and it shows, he's crap with a sword, great with a pistol, and a better fistfighter than most of his contemporaries.

I took Koris for a Dwarf the first time around but it seems more and more likely there really aren't any races but humans, and Koris' odd gorilla body is just a result of his parentage. Although it still seems like he's a half-dwarf or something given it's explicitly the result of his dad boning a foreign bride. Maybe Norton's just not using traditional names for these people.

Our first battle's an interesting one and heart-wrenching to see Koris going up against his own people, his own friends who've had their souls ripped out to turn them into automatons, and his crying out their names while ordering them all killed to free their minds from the soulless corpse-fighters. Simon proves suitably badass without being ridiculous.

Magic plays a role in combat but by having the Witch do it and Simon not understanding it, it feels more mystical than a lot of more modern stuff. I really liked him helping her carve wooden toy boats which she then turned into an illusory fleet to scare away a possible invasion. I have no clear grasp on what magic can and can't do which pretty much means magic can't be the keystone of the final plot resolution or it will feel like an ass-pull. The fight is also interesting, the simple strategies like using barrels full of metal balls that will make a racket when a door's slammed open work pretty well and this does double-duty, both to show how hopelessly outnumbered the defenders are that a barrel full of balls has to be their only protection in some tunnels and to show that they're clever types who rely more on guile than brute force, classic heroes against an evil empire.

I'm not sure how Kolder attacked for the air but my current theory is magic zeppelins.

There are only humans in first books/later author added other races - but they are mostly excint,besides those books are not worth reading anyway.

Simon as not superman is good thing.Pity,that he do not take rifle with him.
And strange thing,that witches do not manage to produce rifles thanks to his knowledge.
Air attack - you no need magic for that,zeppelins would do.

I had a late start, but have finally reached the halfway point.

Spoiler: Spoilers

It is as well written as I remember, and the main cast is well rounded.

I suppose my first nitpick is that Simon's .45 seemingly vanishing some point before the siege from Kolder, logically I would guess he ran out of ammunition, but the book could have at least mentioned it.

The next nitpick is the fact that rape is a very real threat for the Witchs of Escarp, and while it causes no narrative problems with the story, it is something I'm squeamish about.

Overall it's been an enjoyable re-read!

As to how the Kolder launched an arial attack, all I can say is "Occams Razor".

Thanks to first and second book,we knew that Kolder are remnants of army which run from advance cyvilized world after loosing war there.
So,they could have get some kind of UFO.

rape is creepy,indeed.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Hmm, forgot to update at previous milestones. I've been taking this one fairly slow, currently at 72% and part IV, VENTURE OF GORM. I'm glad to see that title as I don't really like gormless books.

Spoiler

I felt like it slightly lost the plot when the narration switched to Loyse. It took a bit to show the relevance but eventually, the Witch, Simon, and the Chip fleet met up with her and became relevant again so I really can't complain about it. Perhaps I'm too used to modern narration styles where multiple threads rarely intermingle only every few chapters.

The Witch hiding a necklace in her mouth and then spitting out the pendant to swing like a pendulum and hypnotize a guy was just... no. The mental image of her swinging a necklace around hypnotically with her mouth was too comical and cringe for me to take it seriously.

Koris continues to be awesome, and with his new magic axe becomes even more dwarven. I wish there had been at least some foreshadowing of who Lord Volt was though.

The story's getting increasingly feminist over time. Loyse's arranged marriage is a major issue, we learn that Witches permanently lose their power if raped (or willingly have sex but that appears off the table for all of them we've met so far) and now the Hawkmen's weird gender role issues are provided as a conflict source. To be sure, this is late 1950s/early 60s feminism and shouldn't be conflated with where the philosophy has gone in the modern day, it also runs quite differently. The feminist issues revolve around forced marriage, actual rape, and women being kept in, basically, harems, not around "equality."

I like the Hawkmen though. Guys seeing and hearing through their falcon familiars is a fairly cool bit of magic that contrasts nicely with the witches and shows how there's many kinds of magic in the world. I also like their general policy of "We're not going to attack you just for walking on our land but you're going to be watched every second you're here and we'll bring the fire if you turn out to be up to no good." Their garb appears to be the source of the various bird hats that adorn some covers of the book. Perhaps this suggests that Simon's going to become a Hawkman since you'd think the MC is going to be on the cover, though I have my doubts about this theory and can't really see Simon as a Hawkman at this point.

 

[ATP]

Hmm, forgot to update at previous milestones. I've been taking this one fairly slow, currently at 72% and part IV, VENTURE OF GORM. I'm glad to see that title as I don't really like gormless books.

Spoiler

I felt like it slightly lost the plot when the narration switched to Loyse. It took a bit to show the relevance but eventually, the Witch, Simon, and the Chip fleet met up with her and became relevant again so I really can't complain about it. Perhaps I'm too used to modern narration styles where multiple threads rarely intermingle only every few chapters.

The Witch hiding a necklace in her mouth and then spitting out the pendant to swing like a pendulum and hypnotize a guy was just... no. The mental image of her swinging a necklace around hypnotically with her mouth was too comical and cringe for me to take it seriously.

Koris continues to be awesome, and with his new magic axe becomes even more dwarven. I wish there had been at least some foreshadowing of who Lord Volt was though.

The story's getting increasingly feminist over time. Loyse's arranged marriage is a major issue, we learn that Witches permanently lose their power if raped (or willingly have sex but that appears off the table for all of them we've met so far) and now the Hawkmen's weird gender role issues are provided as a conflict source. To be sure, this is late 1950s/early 60s feminism and shouldn't be conflated with where the philosophy has gone in the modern day, it also runs quite differently. The feminist issues revolve around forced marriage, actual rape, and women being kept in, basically, harems, not around "equality."

I like the Hawkmen though. Guys seeing and hearing through their falcon familiars is a fairly cool bit of magic that contrasts nicely with the witches and shows how there's many kinds of magic in the world. I also like their general policy of "We're not going to attack you just for walking on our land but you're going to be watched every second you're here and we'll bring the fire if you turn out to be up to no good." Their garb appears to be the source of the various bird hats that adorn some covers of the book. Perhaps this suggests that Simon's going to become a Hawkman since you'd think the MC is going to be on the cover, though I have my doubts about this theory and can't really see Simon as a Hawkman at this point.

Yes,part when witch run with Loyse is partially comical,when we imagine hypnotizing dude that way.
Hawkmans would be "rehabilitated" in some next book,when they embrace womans rights.Forget title,becouse it is not worth reading anyway.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Alright people, it's a new month and it's time for us to make selections for our next book. I'll have nominations up for a few days and a vote set to close on the 7th for our December selection.

 

[Ixian]

Spoiler: Final thoughts on Witch World

Overall, much as I remembered it, although I'm surprised by the details I forgot, like the ridiculous bird helmets, or the vanishing pistol.

I think the Kolder were well done antagonists, I admit they are somewhat lacking in any singular villainous antagonist, but thats also one of their strengths, the mysterious abilities unexplainable by the magical knowledge of the locals or the technological knowledge of Simon, really help sell the twist that the Kolder were also a technological people, even more advanced than Earth from Simon's time period.

I will also add that I remember reading the next few books in the series, but only remember they kept getting progressively worse, like, really bad.

But, for this first book, I give it a solid 8/10.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Spoiler: Final thoughts on Witch World

Overall, much as I remembered it, although I'm surprised by the details I forgot, like the ridiculous bird helmets, or the vanishing pistol.

I think the Kolder were well done antagonists, I admit they are somewhat lacking in any singular villainous antagonist, but thats also one of their strengths, the mysterious abilities unexplainable by the magical knowledge of the locals or the technological knowledge of Simon, really help sell the twist that the Kolder were also a technological people, even more advanced than Earth from Simon's time period.

I will also add that I remember reading the next few books in the series, but only remember they kept getting progressively worse, like, really bad.

But, for this first book, I give it a solid 8/10.

Yeah, I really did not see:

Spoiler

The Kolder being an entire race of high-tech Sliders/Isekai coming. I quite admire a good plot twist that both surprises me and is something that fits the existing themes of the story so I was impressed with this one.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Meh, feels like we're all slow moving this month, me included. Probably the winter and holidays.

Anyway got my nomination for this month:

Salvos #1 Curious Beginnings

Curious Beginnings (Salvos, #1)

The Netherworld: it is a hellish landscape inhabited on…

www.goodreads.com

While the concentrated fail that was Jake's Magical Market soured me on LitRPG a bit I've done some pre-reading on this one and determined it's a high quality example of the genre, with a strong emphasis on a non-human mindset and a monster constantly evolving and learning. It's free on Royal Road along with its sequels for anybody who's on a budget from this Christmas... or this economy.