Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
No, thank you!
Still haven't found my copy, sadly, I think I gave it to a friend a long time ago, but I can find the relevant stories and read them, most should even be public domain by now.
Book Club Thread 2: Sword Diplomacy
- Thread starter Bear Ribs
- Start date
Still haven't found my copy, sadly, I think I gave it to a friend a long time ago, but I can find the relevant stories and read them, most should even be public domain by now.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Okay, new vote is going up tomorrow. I want to finish off with a last thought, having ruminated on this for a while.
Originally I commented that the story would be stronger if Benny was taken out in act 1 and Vaena actually wound up going up against the Night Elf as the final boss. I want to expand on that.
It's a truism in both Hollywood and the comics industry that a hero is only as good as their villain. A hero is judged by the quality of obstacles they overcome, and especially the villain they defeat. Batman without the Joker is just a crazy man, Neo needed Agent Smith, and Superman needs Lex Luthor as a foil. Heroes with weak powers and abilities can still command respect because of the villains they face, but weak villains like Condiment King or Paste Pot Pete are universally mocked and despised.
Vaena was a suitable hero but this book simply didn't supply a suitable villain to foil her with. She couldn't really make a good enough showing because Benny was just a scummy gangster with nothing special going for him. He wasn't particularly clever or strong, had no magical power, and had no way to actually hurt Vaena. Vaena simply couldn't shine brightly enough because the villain was insufficient to the task of making her shine.
I still think this was a decent story, and mechanically it works but I'm more and more convinced, the flaw that kept it from being great was Benny's inadequacy as a main villain.
Originally I commented that the story would be stronger if Benny was taken out in act 1 and Vaena actually wound up going up against the Night Elf as the final boss. I want to expand on that.
It's a truism in both Hollywood and the comics industry that a hero is only as good as their villain. A hero is judged by the quality of obstacles they overcome, and especially the villain they defeat. Batman without the Joker is just a crazy man, Neo needed Agent Smith, and Superman needs Lex Luthor as a foil. Heroes with weak powers and abilities can still command respect because of the villains they face, but weak villains like Condiment King or Paste Pot Pete are universally mocked and despised.
Vaena was a suitable hero but this book simply didn't supply a suitable villain to foil her with. She couldn't really make a good enough showing because Benny was just a scummy gangster with nothing special going for him. He wasn't particularly clever or strong, had no magical power, and had no way to actually hurt Vaena. Vaena simply couldn't shine brightly enough because the villain was insufficient to the task of making her shine.
I still think this was a decent story, and mechanically it works but I'm more and more convinced, the flaw that kept it from being great was Benny's inadequacy as a main villain.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Because they have to keep the big bad for the next book, or the book after the next 5 books...
This is not new, nor is it rare.
It happened in Star Wars, in Stargate, in every single series, people don't wanna kill a cash cow.
The one thing I liked about Mistborn, at least the first book, is that Sanderson managed to make the Lord Ruler and the bigger bad that came after him work.
And I really don't like anything about Sanderson and he is a huge famished cow milker.
I have to disagree with you about the specific villain, batman had an army of supervillains, and personally I never saw the Joker as a big deal, since I started off with the older movies, the ones where Twoface, the Riddler, the Penguin and Freeze and Ivy were the primary antagonists.
I saw some of the cartoon, too, but there, the Joker wasn't impressive, either.
Argent
Well-known member
Star War at least in the original trilogy did manage to have a good frist villain. I mean there is a reason that Vader is so iconic.
But for Sword Diplomacy I do agree that while an interesting villain Benny and the Traid eas just to weak. I don't really agree with the line if you give Frodo a light saber, you have to give Sauron a Death Star. But at the same time there needs tl be some tension and believability that the villain could win. Sword Diplomacy lacks that.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Our third thread is up and the poll ready for your votes. What shall we read this month?
Book Club Thread 3: Witch World
Berserker by Fred Saberhagen For Love of Mother Not by Alan Dean Foster Grunts by Mary Gentle Illusion by Paula Volsky The Rediscovery of Man(SF Masterworks edition) by Cordwainer Smith Witch World by Andre Norton
www.the-sietch.com
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
The original idea was to never show the emperor in the OT IIRC, he should have been just a shadowy figure somewhere.
However, I was alluding to what happened next, the original EU and the new EU both have escalating numbers of bigger and badder baddies and multiple attempts to bring back the old Big Bad, like all of Palpatine's upgraded clones.
Yeah, it was a prequel, I liked it for the cute elf enters human world element.Also if I have to be honest I am perfectly fine with stories that do not have a single big bad/main antagonist.
A lot of older episodic cop shows and science fiction are like that, no overarching ark and the like, as is a lot of collected science fiction.
Already updated my signature.
